A Study Of Seals

[Hanno Spoelstra]

No, this is not Sir David Attenborough's latest documentary on marine mammals

Recently I took stock of the grease seals I have for my CMP. Some came with my F15A when bought, others were acquired later. In this thread I will post known details, but also ask the members to add information if they can supply it.

I have five different seals, numbered 1 - 5 in the picture below.

Thanks in advance,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Seal "no.1":

NOS, leather seal.

Measurements:
OD: 1.831"/ 46,5 mm
ID: 1.3"/ 33,02 mm

No other details known.

Who knows where this seal fits?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Seal "no.2":

NOS, leather seal, marked "050308".

Measurements:
OD: 3"/ 77,78 mm
ID: 2"/ 50,80 mm

No other details known.

Who knows where this seal fits?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Seal "no.3":

Rubber seal, marked "Burtonwood 237-350".

Measurements:
OD: 3.5"/ 89 mm
ID: 2.26"/ 57,53 mm

No other details known.

Who knows where this seal fits?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Seal "no.4":

NOS leather seal.

Measurements:
OD: 4.569"/ 116,05 mm
ID: 3"/ 76,24 mm

Part number: BB-1175-C
Part name: Retainer - rear wheel grease (leather oil seal)

I bought these locally as new rubbers seals for EUR 25,- each.

Mac's Antique Auto Parts list them as follows:
Part# | Price | Description | Additional | Year
BB-1175-C | 21.95 | WHEEL GREASE SEAL | REAR 2 TON TRUCK 4.56" OD TRUCK WITH FULL FLOATING WHEEL AXLE EXCEPT 122" WHEELBASE | 1934-1952

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Seal "no.5":

NOS leather seal.

Measurements:
OD: 6.25"/ 159,8 mm
ID: 4.5"/ 120 mm

Part number: *C01Q-1190-B
Part name: Seal - front axle hub grease leather oil seal

I bought these locally as NOS leather seals for EUR 10,- each.

EDITED TO CORRECT: this is not Part number *C01Q-1190-B as that cross references to SKF/ CR 49998 with ID 5" and OD 6.25"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Measurements:
OD: 6.25"/ 159,8 mm
ID: 4.5"/ 120 mm

Part number: *C01Q-1190-B
Part name: Seal - front axle hub grease leather oil seal

In cv joint Bob posted a picture of this seal, with I presume a modern part number written on the piece of paper.

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Next picture the seals.... again readily available.. inner at $10 and the big 6.5 in at $25...... if you have difficulty getting them let me know......

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...7&d=1170299240

[Lynn Eades]

No4, BB-1175-C is the inner hub seal for the Ford 3 ton axle. This seal fits the various carriers (bren and universal etc) and probably most of the trucks of that era. Tony Smith will give you a more accurate application list.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

No4, BB-1175-C is the inner hub seal for the Ford 3 ton axle. This seal fits the various carriers (bren and universal etc) and probably most of the trucks of that era. Tony Smith will give you a more accurate application list.

Thanks Lynn. I should have listed known applications.

So BB-1175-C fits the F15A, Universal Carriers as you say, and indeed most other CMP trucks.
It cross references to Chevrolet Part No. GM-1798517.

Dirk Leegwater has them posted on his site, which is where I bought them from:

For Sale
Seal assy.
Retainer, rear wheel
hub inner oil seal
GM-1798517
BB-1175 C
Price: € 25,00

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Seal "no.4":

NOS leather seal.

Measurements:
OD: 4.569"/ 116,05 mm
ID: 3"/ 76,24 mm

Part number: BB-1175-C
Part name: Retainer - rear wheel grease (leather oil seal)

I bought these locally as new rubbers seals for EUR 25,- each.

Mac's Antique Auto Parts list them as follows:
Part# | Price | Description | Additional | Year
BB-1175-C | 21.95 | WHEEL GREASE SEAL | REAR 2 TON TRUCK 4.56" OD TRUCK WITH FULL FLOATING WHEEL AXLE EXCEPT 122" WHEELBASE | 1934-1952

I have only just come across this thread. At present rebuilding an axle for a Carrier, after researching a replacement seal for the hubs, I found that by searching with the Ford part number, BB1175C, I came up with one manufactured by Chicago Rawhide, now marketed under SKF name. It is a modern type of hub seal that turns within itself and thus doing away with the old type lip to seal path idea. Found a SKF data sheet for said seal, and it listed all the Ford and other makers part numbers that the SKF seal no. 31307 covered, inc. BB1175C. I knew the shaft size was correct, having measured the axle, 3.125", but having seen the Ford part number as well, neglected to check the OD assuming it would be OK. On receiving these seals from a dealer in the US, I now realise the OD is incorrect, the data sheet shows OD of seal is 4.631", where as the hub bore actually measures 4.560" (which is what Hanno quotes in his post here). There is also a discrepancy in the width of the seal as well, but that is not as important as the OD.

So, my question is, does anyone know if there is another SKF number for this seal, to suit the actual size required for the axle, and has anyone else had this problem?

[Lynn Eades]

Your no.1 seal, if it is correct for the F15, is probably the one that goes inside your axle housings to keep the oil in the diff and knuckle ends. The housing is usually dry between.

C01Q 1190B crosses over to gm 1809797

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

So, my question is, does anyone know if there is another SKF number for this seal, to suit the actual size required for the axle, and has anyone else had this problem?

Problem now solved

[Keith Webb]

Just a guess but this looks like the transfer case power take off seal.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Seal "no.1":

NOS, leather seal.

Measurements:
OD: 1.831"/ 46,5 mm
ID: 1.3"/ 33,02 mm

No other details known.

Who knows where this seal fits?

[Keith Webb]

Yep, this is the one you need to replace when you see grease and oil coming out of the brake drums. Amazingly they seem to last about 60 years.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Seal "no.5":

NOS leather seal.

Measurements:
OD: 6.25"/ 159,8 mm
ID: 4.5"/ 120 mm

Part number: *C01Q-1190-B
Part name: Seal - front axle hub grease leather oil seal

I bought these locally as NOS leather seals for EUR 10,- each.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Just a guess but this looks like the transfer case power take off seal.

Yes it also looks like the F15 hub seal.

[Col Tigwell]

Chicago Rawhide and National who are the two largest USA seal suppliers put out several cross over books

One from OEM part numbers to theirs.

Another cross references from size to manufacturers numbers.

Also Cr produce another publication on sizing for speedy sleeves which have to be one of the greatest inventions since the war. What is not commonly known that if the shaft is out of limits for roundness, the sppedy sleeve will bulge up and make the shaft unusable. When I worked for Kenworth we did not bother with micrometers if the sleeve went on OK then you could be sure it would not leak.

regards

Col

[Phil Waterman]

Cross Reference and Dimensional Information On Line I have been using Motion Industries for a number of years to purchase seals and bearings for my CMPs they have a very usable on line sited http://www.motionindustries.com/moti...mii/index.html which I have found almost every seal and bearing that I have needed. Most of the seal numbers or bearing numbers found on Chevy CMP parts are still good numbers. The Motion Industries site also gives you the dimensional and detail information on the parts. One word of caution be sure to look at all of the cross over possibilities as there is a huge price range for “interchangeable” parts example wheel bearing depending on the precision and speed range have a huge cost.

Even if you don’t use Motion Industries the listing gives you a number of different manufactures for the same parts.


Cheers Phil


3August2019 - just checked and the link to Motion Industries is still good

[Bob Carriere]

When I was purchasing bearings and seals I use a small dirm in Ottawa that had a web search engine that allowed them to look up parts by dimensions. As long has I had the proper precise metric ID....OD..... thickness.....application.... they were able to find modern replacements.

I did the axles, tranny and T case. At the barn we had 3 instances were the proper bearing could not be found....

..... the flat bearing for the front axle egg cup.... New departure 928....... did find a few old stock but at fantastic prices..... but Dirk has ome NOS.

The bottom bearing for the rear of the tranny was impossible to find.... but found some good used ones from our stock of spare transmissions.

On the HUP front axle there is an inner oil seal..... that keeps the differential oil from moving to the eggcup...... we could not find the proper ID / OD combination...... we opted for the proper ID size and had a local machine shop make an adapter from aluminium that matched available OD dimensions. Installed easily and was pegged in place with a centre punch.

Bob

[Eric Szalanda]

I am just rebuilding my F15A and refitted the front axle. I have replaced all the oil seals with modern lip seals. I do not trust NOS. I just took the old ones in, and sometimes I even took the housing in ( except for the inner seals). I replaced the wheel bearings and cones at great expense. I have a list of part numbers somewhere.
The best service in Australia is Eastern Bearings in Melbourne.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Look up cross references to modern SKF Chicago Rawhide seals here:
http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Using the link above, this one cross references to SKF 45150:
http://www.skfextranet.com/catalogs/...il.asp?s=45150

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Seal "no.5":

NOS leather seal.

Measurements:
OD: 6.25"/ 159,8 mm
ID: 4.5"/ 120 mm

I bought these locally as NOS leather seals for EUR 10,- each.

[Bob Carriere]

Just did an inquiry....... 35 in stock in Toronto listed at $114. CDN each.
Ottawa business price at $57.64....part number 49998 6.25 OD x 4.5 ID available on 2 days notice.

One current manufacturing use is for bread making machines!!!!!!

Bob C

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Ottawa business price at $57.64....part number 49998 6.25 OD x 4.5 ID available on 2 days notice.

Not sure if you're quoting the right number?
SKF 49998 has sizes Shaft 5" and Bore 6.25": http://www.skfextranet.com/catalogs/...il.asp?s=49998

H.

[Bob Carriere]

Will verify with the supplier on Tuesday....... could they be overlooking the 1/4 inch rubber skirt on the inside...?

Will keep you posted.

[Bob Carriere]

The seals they brought in was the wrong size.

DO NOT USE 49998...... 499 stands for 4.99 inches inside diameter...

PROPER PART NUMBER IS 45150..... WHICH MEANS 4.51 inches inside dia.

....and of course they had them in stock and the price is $60.35 CDN plus taxes which comes out to $136.39 for two.

Plus shipping to where ever??????

Cheers

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

I am getting confused,

I have a C8A over here, with seals outer dia. 6.25" and inner 5.00" are they a different size then the C15A??
In the manual there are 2 sizes of joints, 5" or 6". with 4 or 6 studs at the steeringlink.
But no 4,5" ???? I can not find them.

Groeten

Hendrik

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hendrik van Oorspronk

I am getting confused,

I have a C8A over here, with seals outer dia. 6.25" and inner 5.00" are they a different size then the C15A??
In the manual there are 2 sizes of joints, 5" or 6". with 4 or 6 studs at the steeringlink.
But no 4,5" ???? I can not find them.

Groeten

Hendrik

Hendrik,

Is the old seal in the C8A the following dimensions: Shaft 5" and Bore 6.25"? If so, then use SKF 49998 http://www.skfextranet.com/catalogs/...il.asp?s=49998

If it measures Shaft 4.5" and Bore 6.25", then use SKF 45150: http://www.skfextranet.com/catalogs/...il.asp?s=45150

You can cross reference any seal via http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com/ > "Seals North America Part Lookup". Punching in Shaft and Bore diameters gives you a list of current seals.

HTH,
Hanno

[sth65pac]

Great,
A part number....

but which manufacturer???

In Australia this isn't enough to identify a seal correctly.

Cheers,

Ian

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Just did an inquiry....... 35 in stock in Toronto listed at $114. CDN each.
Ottawa business price at $57.64....part number 49998 6.25 OD x 4.5 ID available on 2 days notice.

One current manufacturing use is for bread making machines!!!!!!

Bob C

Cheers

[rob love]

Originally Posted by sth65pac

Great,
A part number....

but which manufacturer???

In Australia this isn't enough to identify a seal correctly.

Cheers,

Ian

The part numbers are Chicago Rawhide (CR) which is also SKF. However, it is more likely you want part number 45150, not 49998.

[Bob Carriere]

The 45150 number provided by Hanno and Rob ARE the correct numbers.......also fits C15a and HUP front axle available from SKF.