Bataan cab 11 water truck

[Mike K]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...mmand%20car%22

Captured vehicles in Japanese hands.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...mmand%20car%22

Captured vehicles in Japanese hands.

That was quite a haul!

Now, how did that CMP water tanker end up in Bataan?

[Mike Cecil]

Hanno,

The same way that 25-pdrs from Malaya ended up scattered across the islands of the SWP: the Japanese moved the captured equipment about to where it was needed by Japanese forces. There is a 25-pdr in the collection of the AWM that is ex-British Army, ex-Japanese Army, 'resumed' in 1945.

I suspect a specialist truck like a water tank would be the sort of equipment that would be moved and used in other places.

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Hanno,

The same way that 25-pdrs from Malaya ended up scattered across the islands of the SWP: the Japanese moved the captured equipment about to where it was needed by Japanese forces. There is a 25-pdr in the collection of the AWM that is ex-British Army, ex-Japanese Army, 'resumed' in 1945.

I suspect a specialist truck like a water tank would be the sort of equipment that would be moved and used in other places.

Thanks Mike,

Seeing the display they were very happy with their war booty.

Similar to the Netherlands East-Indies Army equipment, plenty of which was re-used by the Japanese Army, and then taken over again by the NEI Army in 1945. Some equipment even went through Dutch-Japanese-Indonesian-Dutch-Indonesian hands between 1942 and 1949!

[Mike Cecil]

Hanno,

What I find most astonishing is the large quantity of equipment that was not disabled and was captured in apparently usable condition.

Same goes for Europe and North Africa, I suppose, with the German army picking up plenty of salvageable and usable equipment, and the British Commonwealth armies taking over loads of Italian equipment in the early stages of the North Africa campaigns. A number of Australian units were provided with anti-tank guns of Italian origin, for example, and used them quite effectively against their former owners.

Mike

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

That was quite a haul!

Now, how did that CMP water tanker end up in Bataan?

And not just the Cab 11, but a British Universal Carrier. It would seem that these were captured in either Malaya or Singapore without being disabled or destroyed, and as Mike Cecil has suggested, transferred to elsewhere in the Japanese-controlled domain.

But the really interesting question is was the magazine article supplied, with illustrations, to Australia in Aug 1942? The Tribune was an English-language paper published in the Phillipines after the occupation by the Japanese. The illustrations are obviously of Japanese origin, and the tone of the article leans strongly towards celebrating the fortunes of the Japanese in the Philipines.

Was this paper/magazine actually a Japanese provocation, distributed to Allied troops as a "Tokyo Rose" type English language propaganda piece? It's effect on the Allied troops, or the general Australian Public, who were contemplating turning the tide of war following the Battle of the Coral Sea and the Milne Bay Campaign and taking the fight to the Japs, would have been demoralising. If so, the quoted quantities of vehicles may be an exaggeration.

Gen Douglas MacArthur, a vain egotist and notoriously touchy about any suggestion that he was responsible for the loss of the Philipines, had been appointed Supreme Commander since his arrival in Aust in May '42 and had unprecedented censorship control of all Australian Media. He would have been severely embarrassed by any illustrated accounting of the materiel gains made by the Japs, particularly at the time of mounting a counter-campaign needing all the Australian resources he could muster. An article such as this would have undermined his prestige quite badly

[David Dunlop]

Gentlemen.

I would bet dollars to donuts, if those Water Trucks and Carriers were photographed in the Philippines, they got their directly from Canada.

When Canada sent the Winnipeg Grenadiers to Hong Kong, two ships were assigned to get them there. One carried all the troops, the second all their vehicles. The vehicles included a full compliment of Water Trucks and Carriers.

For whatever reason that escapes me at the moment, enroute to Hong Kong, the two ships stopped in the Philippines. When the Americans discovered the vehicles on the one ship, they commandeered them and the Canadians were powerless to stop them in spite of the importance of them to their mission in Hong Kong.

It was my understanding the Americans got little or no use out of the vehicles before being forced to withdraw to Corregidor and the vehicles were abandoned.

These CMP’s and Carriers may very well have been the first of their types the Japanese’s had a chance to have a close look at and study in detail, hence the appearance that these photos were taken as part of a documentation process.

David

[David Dunlop]

Found it.

The troops sailed from Vancouver aboard the SS Awatea. She sailed with 12,000 cubic feet of empty cargo space because of cockups that prevented priority MT being loaded that was sitting in a Military Siding in Vancouver at the time.

Brand New MT had been ordered from both Ford and GM to be crated and delivered to Vancouver for loading, which had been done by both companies.

When the Winnipeg Grenadiers and Royal Rifles sailed on the Awatea, Brig. Lawson, their CO had been advised an American Freighter, the Don Jose, had been chartered to ship the MT to Hong Kong, and would be following them in a few days.

It was the Don Jose that redirected to Manila for some reason and the MT seized. Since it was all in crated mode,I doubt the Americans had the manpower or time to assemble much, if any of it, before being over run by the Japanese.

David

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks David, a little-known but interesting aspect of the mayhem of the Japanese thrust south.

What was the fate of the Canadian troops? The Awatea was a 13,000-odd ton New Zealand passenger vessel which became a troopship in September 1941. It was sunk by German aircraft off the Algerian coast during Operation Torch in November 1942.

The Japanese not only got the vehicles from the Don Jose, but the ship as well. A 10,000-odd ton freighter registered to Madrigal & Co of the Philippines, Don Jose was bombed by Japanese aircraft off Corregidor on 2 January 1942 and beached. The Japanese refloated it, towed it to Hong Kong, where it was damaged by US aircraft, then broken up for scrap.

Mike

[David Dunlop]

Hi Mike.

The troops were delivered to Hong Hong aboard the Awatea days before the Japanese arrived and I assume the Awatea headed to either Australia or New Zealand to await further orders.

Observers of the day were amazed at how well equipped ‘C’ Force was when they embarked for Hong Kong. They had virtually everything they needed, including the full MT compliment, had it arrived in Hong Kong as well. The only documented exceptions were a complete lack of 3” Mortar Ammunition (only 300 rounds existed in all of Canada at that time), and a significant shortage of Boyes Anti Tank Rifles. I believe 20 per Company were intended, but a lack of them in Canada meant each Company was issued 1 each.

The formal Federal Government Inquiry following the Hong Kong disaster was a complete whitewash. The Head was a cherry picked government crony. He accepted testimony from a non-military witness that the lack of 3” Mortar Carriers would not have had any significant impact on the troops ability to move Mortar teams from place to place quickly and effectively.

He also praised the comprehensive and detailed testimony a witness gave regarding loading of vehicles aboard a ship, when they had never done it themselves and the witnesses assumption was fully assembled vehicles were the topic. Testimony from a second witness, a former officer from the Awatea, who had loaded the ship hundreds of times was dismissed as ‘dubious at best’. This in spite of his testimony that the forward cargo hatch was indeed too small for loading the vehicles in question were they fully assembled, but could have readily accepted any and all of the crated vehicles being sent to Hong Kong. Brig Lawson had even submitted a ‘Priority List’ of vehicles that would be most beneficial to accompany the troops aboard the Awatea, with the rest to follow, but that action was never approved, even with time available to do so.

David

[David Dunlop]

Well, well, well.

I just realized.

It will be the 80th Anniversary of the Battle of Hong Kong in December of this year.

David

[Colin Alford]

David,

This is a very interesting story that I knew nothing about.

It prompted me to search and find this:
https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...0/1376?r=0&s=2

I haven’t found the full extent of the files, but attached are some of the pertinent documents.

If the 15 cwt water tank was indeed one of the vehicles destined for C Force, then it was 1 of 2 loaded onboard the Don Jose.

[Jordan Baker]

I did find the Don Jose file in the archives. There was a flurry of communications going back and forth about where the ship should go. It was decided it was best to redirect it to the Philippines instead of Hong Kong. From what I remember reading in the documents it was purposely sent there as it was felt it would not reach Hong Kong due to being south of the Philippines on December 7, 1941. I don’t believe the vehicles were seized by the US forces. The paperwork suggests that talks were made in Washington to have the vehicles go to American forces in Manila.

There is some fascinating letters going back and forth about this ship. There is also a few diagrams of the ship and he layout of the cargo.

https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...6/2063?r=0&s=1

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

...

There is some fascinating letters going back and forth about this ship. There is also a few diagrams of the ship and he layout of the cargo.

https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...6/2063?r=0&s=1

In the late 80s I was posted to Mobile Command Headquarters and to the Logistics branch offices wing of the second floor. One of my duties included amending publications. I remember seeing a manual for ship loading, and still recall that the diagrams were Liberty Ships. Containers, RO-RO ships, and other forms of highly mechanized transportation had not yet found their way into the back annexes of those manuals. Or, if they had, I didn't see those parts.