trado/walking beam/boomerang

[nuyt]

Hello,

I was going to do a little thread on my Overvalwagen Forum about the supposed relation between the DAF Trado 6x6 conversion kits and Engesa of Brazil's Boomerang system, but then I discovered I know to little about the technical features of this.

I need a lesson.

Bart Vanderveen mentions the Boomerang as a Brazilian version of the Trado, patented when DAF's patent ran out (early sixties).

The Boomerang is described as a "walking beam" conversion and was applied to Cascavel & Urutu armoured cars and APC series as wel as several Brazilian 6x6 truck designs and conversions.

But what is it? What's a walking beam? Is it similar to the Trado?
How does this work?

If similar that would mean that the post-war DAF series of military trucks and those by Engesa would be related regarding their powered axles configuration.

Brazilian websites mention the boomerang as an indigenous invention (well, that may be legally the case) and no one refers to any DAF trado connection or example.

Who knows more of this?

Greetings,
Nuyt

[nuyt]

compare the DAF M39 armoured car with the Engesa Cascavel:

[nuyt]

here's it again in South America:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
But what is it? What's a walking beam? Is it similar to the Trado?
How does this work?

Nuyt, see http://freespace.virgin.net/scammell.man/history.html for an animation of the huge axle articulation available from Scammell's walking-beam rear suspension design.
I don't know which was there first, Scammell's walking-beam suspension or the Trado conversion. It is much the same with Marmon-Herrington's all-wheel drive conversion; someone thought it up, after which it was copied by others, or did several engineers design similar constructions independently of each other? We know that is how the wheel was invented...

Relating the Engesa Cascavel to the DAF M39 is stretching it a bit too much, I think.

H.

[nuyt]

Hey Hanno, thanks for the Scammell lesson!

No, I am not really comparing the two armoured cars, just showing two walking beam type 6x6 armoured cars.

I bet the Engesa engineers had never heard of the DAF M39 when they were looking for a way to renew Brazil's fleet of M8 Greyhounds.

That vehicle was their main example of course and the earlier types of Cacavel (with 37mm gun turret) clearly shows the striking resemblance.

But not for the rear bogies. Engesa made good use of their "invention" around that period of the Boomerang system, of which Vanderveen said it was Trado inspired.

The Trado in turn may have been inspired by the Scammell system?

I know DAF sold the Trado design to Delahay of France, but I do not know if these made any use of it.

After the war Spanish military truck series were patterned on the contemporary DAF series.

Cheers,
Nuyt

[Hanno Spoelstra]

If similar that would mean that the post-war DAF series of military trucks and those by Engesa would be related regarding their powered axles configuration.

While of broadly similar concept, the construction of the post-war DAF YA318, YA328 and YP408 was entirely different. In that respect the post-war Engesa trucks were more closely related to the Trado than the post-war DAFs.


Source: http://gaf.zeelandnet.nl/yp408/vering.html

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
But not for the rear bogies. Engesa made good use of their "invention" around that period of the Boomerang system, of which Vanderveen said it was Trado inspired.

The Trado in turn may have been inspired by the Scammell system?

No doubt the Trado inspired the Engesa engineers; could well have been they outright copied it, though.
The Scammell must have been around before the Trado (introduced in 1934), so most likely Mr Van Doorne en Mr Van der Trappen found some inspiration there. The real differentiator was the fact that the Trado was a conversion kit, while the Scammell walking-beam was an integral part of the truck.

After the war Spanish military truck series were patterned on the contemporary DAF series.

Weren't those license-built DAF's?

H.

[nuyt]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
The real differentiator was the fact that the Trado was a conversion kit, while the Scammell walking-beam was an integral part of the truck.

Yep, and the Boomerang was also sold as a kit. Engesa converted Dodge, Chevrolet, Ford and Mercedes trucks. These kits were also sold abroad, for example by GM of South Africa (source Vanderveen, post-war vehicles book).

Weren't those license-built DAF's?

The Spanish Pegaso Comet was based on the DAF YA314. The Pegaso 5 ton was a collaboration of Pegaso and DAF Netherlands and DAF Madrid (Vanderveen).

Cheers,
Nuyt

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
The Spanish Pegaso Comet was based on the DAF YA314. The Pegaso 5 ton was a collaboration of Pegaso and DAF Netherlands and DAF Madrid (Vanderveen).

I just remembered the relationship between DAF and Spain dates back to before WW2...

[nuyt]

Just when did DAF Madrid come into business? This might be interesting....

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
Just when did DAF Madrid come into business?

http://www.daf.es/?

[nuyt]

Hanno, el website no tiene pagina o seccion de historia, nada! Por eso es mucho mas fascinante!
Arnaldo

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
Hanno, el website no tiene pagina o seccion de historia, nada!

Arnaldo, that much I figgered out. You speak Spanish much better than I do - send them an e-mail!

H.

[nuyt]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
send them an e-mail!

Hombre, estamos esperando una reply!