Pommie truck I.D.

[Mike K]

OK you experts . Whats this ?

I say it's a AEC Marshal .

What you say ?

The antenna array looks like a tram power pickup device .

Mike

[Pete Ashby]

Mike

I tend to agree it's an AEC Marshal.

The picture is pre war note the old style census number and the brass civilian tax holder on the side of the cab.

Interesting picture as AEC only made 600 Marshals, most were bridging units.

Pete

[Godwin Hampton]

Mike,

This picture and others showing the radio equipment inside are reproduced in Louis Muelstee's Wireless for the Warrior, Volume 1.

They were probably taken from the Wireless Set No.3 manual, and the truck is referred to as a Leyland 6-wheeled lorry.

That would make it a Leyland Retreiver. If you can make out the WD number, maybe we can get a more specific identification.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I agree Leyland Retriever..there were in fact no pre-war AEC 6 x 4 chassis noted as being 'Wire Less' lorries but I am no expert. My census number book suggests Leyland Retriever 'Lorry 3 ton 6 x 4 Wire Less' to Contract V.3390, numbers L 4151097 to 4151101 which would be a late 1938 contract I believe.

Compare front ends:
1938 AEC Marshall



Retriever

[Pete Ashby]

It's not a Retriever, I've got one, check out the wings David

Pete

[cliff]

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
It's not a Retriever, I've got one, check out the wings David

Pete

by wings I assume you mean the front mudguards and to me they look pretty similar to the top photo that David put up of the AEC.

So to throw my 2 cents worth in I tend to agree that it is a AEC and not a Leyland.

Cheers
Cliff

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I find this pre-war British WD lorry discussion very useful as I am currently writing another in the VINTAGE ROADSCENE series of articles on the 1930-40 British truck/lorry development story.

As I said I am no expert and stand to be corrected...I noticed that the wireless lorry has what appears to eb the same wheels as the AEC Matador in the 1938 WD Trials. However, I cannot see the distinctive AEC radiator, perhaps others can, and I can find no reference to pre-war Matadors as Wire Less lorries.

As I am on a learning curve I have looked through my census book at all possible makes:

AEC Matador..no evidence YET
ALBION..ditto
GUY..FBAX [?] there were two batches of 6 x 4 W/T lorries to Contract V.2962 of 1937ish

KARRIER...ditto
LEYLAND..not Cub anyway, possibly Retriever I thought
THORNYCROFT..VM.3072 & 5023 related to G/S and Wireless lorries but the front mudguards differ from those in known Thornycroft lorries of the period.

[Godwin Hampton]

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
It's not a Retriever, I've got one, check out the wings David

Pete

Hi all

Beware, we are treading on thin ice!

Many changes would be made between pre-production and production vehicles, as well as between production vehicles in different contracts. These would somthimes be simplifications to speed up production, and sometimes improvements dictated by experience.

As a rule, each contract would have something different from the previous one!

Examples are the Morris-Commercial CS8 with rounded hood (bonnet) and the PU with bumpers, as well as the Bedford MW prototype with squarish hood.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

as well as the Bedford MW prototype with squarish hood.

That was Bedford 'W.D.1' that was built in 1937, and modified in1938 with a new type of air filter. At the same time the WD trialled regular-looking WHG and WLG Bedfords! Obviously the W.D.1 15-cwt prototype begat the MW series and flat-fronted heavier lorries.

[Godwin Hampton]

David,

I was under the impression that the large bonnet was brought about by the War Department specifying a Concertina air filter. It was rounded off on production vehicles. Later ( I would suspect circa 1942 ) a new oil-bath air cleaner was introduced, without the necessity of any external modifications.

A change of policy with regards to open cabs, windscreens, and canvas cab doors/curtains changed the face of many of the trucks that had been in production from the early war period.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Godwin, as soon as I get back my copy of AN ACCOUNT OF OUR STEWARDSHIP I shall give everyone chapter and verse as the book says it all. Meanwhile here is an extract from HERITAGE COMMERCIALS which I edited, relating to Bedford At War:

To trace the start of Vauxhall’s war production, we must travel back to 1935, when the company were invited to look at ways in which standard production model vehicles could be adapted for military use. The two chosen by the company were the 12-cwt BY van and the WH 2-ton truck, but the 20hp 6-cylinder van had already been proposed for discontinuation and it fared badly in the subsequent trials. The 2-tonner did considerably better, and it emerged from the tests as having the highest tractive effort in its class, even when compared against other models that had been specifically designed or adapted for military work. Larger tyres were fitted, and a ‘hot country’ export radiator was fitted before the truck went for further trials at Farnborough. There it was tested in all kinds of conditions, and performed well in every respect, excepting ground clearance where it failed miserably. In 1936 further trials were held in North Wales, and the truck distinguished itself by easily climbing up the 1-in-3 course up Alt-y-Bady. This time the Army engineers found the truck ideal in most respects but the matter of engine cooling, which led to changes to the fan and bonnet design. The 1937 WD trials were also held in North Wales, but this time the company had submitted an experimental 15-cwt military vehicle based on the 2-ton truck, [W.D.1] which performed every task asked of it. In 1938 trials took place again, when the Bedford entrant carried their new 28hp engine, but the tests were reality a formality as Vauxhall had already been given a provisional order to produce 2,000 military trucks in the event of war breaking out.

However the draft 1939 WD Trials Report on the MW proper stated that the truck tested was inferior to that of the prototype, and required modification and re-submission. I would suggest that the 1939 WD Trials had a 'pilot' MW albeit with latest Bedford engine but something got lost in translation from prototype to pilot.

[Pete Ashby]

I found this picture of a an AEC Bridger, note the distinctive tow hooks, position of headlights, wing profile and length and also the wheel rims, I'll post a Retriever picture for comparison in the morning. I'm still backing an AEC Marshal

Pete

[Bill Murray]

Pete and the group:

I cannot claim to be an expert on British vehicles pre-1940, however of the many photos I do have that are properly identified I think we should settle on an AEC Marshal, perhaps a 644 model according to Bart's bible.
Bill

[Mike K]

I agree with Pete on this one ,

The AEC seems to be the only type to have a distinct radius or crown on the front wings . The other makes all appear to have fairly flat section wings . Also the AEC has the rear edge of the wings finishing above the axle line . Page 173 of Barts 1972 edition shows this clearly . Although it is difficult to be 100% certain where the metal and mud flap join is in these grainy pictures . We need closeups .

Anyway, whatever it is , I wish I had one parked in the garage .

Mike

[cliff]

would anyone have a 'square' on pic of the front and side of the cab on this vehicle. The reason I ask is I can then scale a model off the photos.

thanks and cheers
Cliff

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

We need closeups .

..the Census Number!