Rebuild update

#1 25-09-05, 03:23

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Jordan Baker · #2 26-09-05, 13:52

Hi Brad

Your carrier bits are coming together very nicely. You will ahve a really good looking Carrier shortly.

May I suggest one thing. Grind the platting/grade marks off the heads of those bolts. A few seconds with a bench grinder and they will look much more period.

Jordan

rob love · #3 26-09-05, 13:59

Jordan
I was going to sugest the same thing, only I use a 4-1/4" disc grinder with a 50 grit disc. That way the head is polished up, and the traditional grind marks don't appear on the heads.
I only started doing this recently. I had tried to only use the origional BSF bolts, but quickly ran out of the shorter common ones which attach things to the floor. My vehicle came out of Ontario, so it didn't benefit from Manitoba's deep freeze conditions. As well. the previous owner had already changed a lot of the bolts over to NC.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #4 26-09-05, 15:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordan Baker
Hi Brad

Your carrier bits are coming together very nicely. You will ahve a really good looking Carrier shortly.

May I suggest one thing. Grind the platting/grade marks off the heads of those bolts. A few seconds with a bench grinder and they will look much more period.

Jordan

I hate to be a party pooper but take those silver coloured bolts out and throw them away...
The number of notches on the head indicate the hardness of the bolts..
The silver ones are "three knock" bolts..very soft and they stretch...
The gold ones are good..."6 knock" bolts...
The more notches the harder and more tensil strength...

What will happen....
Use the three knock..torque them down to 50 FT/lbs..
Drive the vehicle around for a few days and recheck the breakaway torque...It will have changed...
They will have appeared to have loosened,which they will..
They will stretch..Pull out a loose one and mic it against a new one..It will be longer and thinner...
Save your self some grief ..Leave them in and the whole carrier ,where they are used will stretch,loosen up and squeek and groan and the will eventually break...

Found this out from changing head bolts in refrigeration compressors years ago..
Couldn't get them to stop leaking ..would retorque..and every thing would be fine for a few weeks..Come back..heads were leaking again..
Finally dawned on me the damned bolts had been changed on a factory rebuild and the wrong tensile strength bolts were installed..
Changed the bolts for harder bolts..problem solved..
And I didn't need a micrometer to see how much they had stretched ..it was quite profound..

Alex Blair (RIP) · #5 26-09-05, 17:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad Mills
Hey Alex,

Those are actually grade 5 bolts which should be more than sufficant to hold her together from any stress, at least in this application. Using a lock will tighten things up as well.

The gold plated ones are grade 8 which I think for this application are a bit overkill...perhaps I'm wrong on this.

Hi Brad..
Try them...They are in there now ..The grade 8 would be my choice..The lock washer will keep the nut from backing off..That is not the problem..The bolt will stretch without the nut backing off and will loosen that way..
It may take a little while depending on the carrier usage ,but keep and eye on them,..The first time you get some loose ones,measure them ..you'll probably find out they have stretched..

chris vickery · #6 27-09-05, 13:25

One notch mark on the head = grade 2 bolts
3 notches = grade 5 bolts
6 notches = grade 8 bolts
One triangle = Infasco brand, one of the largest bolt mfg in Canada grade 2
Grade 8 bolts are only really needed in hi - strength applications such as bolting a trailer hitch to your truck or building structural steel.

Lynn Eades · #7 27-09-05, 22:50

Jordan, You're doing a great job, and you're pictures are a great record for those of us who lack the detail. Keep those pictures coming!!! Many thanks for your efforts.

Lynn

Col Tigwell · #8 28-09-05, 00:50

What a delight to view.

Many restorers think that a real slick paint job, will finish the unit off great.

However the best way is as you are doing, getting everything just right and finished well, before final assembly is the way to go.

Then when you drive it out, you do not have to worry about some cut the corners task, coming back to bight you.

It is a real pleasure to see what you are doing, and thanks for sharing it all with us.

Regards

Col Tigwell
Downunder

sapper740 · #9 28-09-05, 01:04

Brad, awesome job you're doing on the UC, Dave (alleramilitaria) will be jealous! I noticed in some of your pics a barrack box with a U.N. decal on it. Those barrack boxes are the greatest thing since Granville Island Breweries Bock! Do you perchance have a spare one to sell? I had to turn mine in when I left the Forces and I've missed it ever since! Did you seve in any U.N. mission? I was a member of UNDOF Roto 58 if memory serves me.

alleramilitaria · #10 28-09-05, 04:48

derek...
Dave (alleramilitaria) will be jealous!

i am not

P.S. bite me

LOL just kidding
dave

Lynn Eades · #11 28-09-05, 06:29

I have just realized my mistake. The things we do late at night!
Can anyone explain the grade system for the BSF bolts used in the Eng/Can carriers.

Barry Churcher · #12 29-09-05, 02:37

Brad, in the fourth photo on the POL and number plate post there is a leather container on the shelf. Do you know what it is for?
It is cylindrical with a lid and a strap. I have one but never found out exactly what it is. I just assumed it is some kind of map case.
Cheers,
Barry

sapper740 · #13 29-09-05, 03:49

Quote:

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
derek...
Dave (alleramilitaria) will be jealous!

i am not

P.S. bite me

LOL just kidding
dave

Right Dave, your UC's aren't the only things green!

I guess you heard about Camp Mabry....all the Nasty Girls (National Guard) have gone to Louisiana so its been cancelled. You goin' to the Fort Worth show in Oct?

alleramilitaria · #14 29-09-05, 04:51

yup, ft worth. but no carrier

but i should have the MK 1 carrier up and running in about 6 months. and the morris up next year.

want to get a coupel of tables together?

Lynn Eades · #15 29-09-05, 23:22

So Brad are you saying (because I dont know)that the Mk2 carriers dont have the separate piece of armour plate in the corners of the hull division plate?

alleramilitaria · #16 29-09-05, 23:50

so would that make your carrier a MK 1.5?

alleramilitaria · #17 30-09-05, 03:40

would someone please send sapper a carrier to restore so he is not on the outside looking in

brad have you rebuilt your steering yet? i have new bearing holders for your center steering plate. they look and work great.

dave

Jordan Baker · #18 30-09-05, 03:52

Hi everyone

Thanks for the great comments by Lyne to me. I hope he does the same for Brad

Anyway

Here is a photo of the division plate on my Mk1 Carrier. Only half of it survied the torch somewhere in its life. Ive made the other side up just with one piece. It still has to be cut down somewhat though. For those plates with the all the rivits in them Im planning on making a latex mold of them and casting them in resin. That way under paint the they will look the same. Further to this if I ever do come across another Mk1 I can swap out the panels.

Jordan Baker · #19 30-09-05, 05:37

yes the angle iron has a slight bend to it. It also appears from memory that the side against the armour plate is thinner. This is to account for the difference in thickness of the two plates.

I may have a better picture showing this on my computer. If not i will get one on the weekend.

Jordan Baker · #20 30-09-05, 05:50

Found one that is slightly better. I will get some more over the course of the weekend.

Any other areas people want pictures of well im at it.

rob love · #21 30-09-05, 15:28

Those two plates are BP steel, as is evidenced by the usual hammer marks on the plates. The triangular rad shrouds are also BP, so between the square plates and the covers, and the long plate with the grab bar to the left of the radio operator (which is also thicker BP plate), these would all supplement the side armour. After all, the carrier was prone to fire from the top, especially when travelling down hill.

rob love · #22 01-10-05, 00:58

BP is for bullet proof. One sign that the metal is BP is the chisel marks on the steel surface. The heat treating of the steel plate to make it BP tended to warp the metal, and another company would hammer it back straight. I have always assumed that is why the outside of the carriers (along with the plates I have listed aboce) have the chisel marks on them.
The ferrets also have similar marks on their hulls.

alleramilitaria · #23 04-10-05, 02:11

you guys are ahead, but im catching up fast. LOL
just kidding

alleramilitaria · #24 04-10-05, 02:24

sorry here is the pic

Gunner · #25 04-10-05, 18:12

Hi Brad:

Which Corps are you with?

We have two affiliated to my unit (30 Fd Regt, RCA CC (2317) and 1 ATk Regt, RCA CC (2958).

Cheers! Mike

Gunner · #26 26-10-05, 00:03

Hi Brad:

I'm in Aldershot for a month teaching tactics to foreign students. Any chance of seeing your carrier? One of my fellow DS, Maj Kevin Crowell, lives in Truro so I could bum a ride with him on a weekend.

Cheers! Mike

alleramilitaria · #27 30-10-05, 01:24

im ketching up on ya

or guess what i did this weekend

alleramilitaria · #28 30-10-05, 01:28

and here, man i am soooo broke.

#29 30-10-05, 01:53

WOW BIG DAVE D thats so cool , I see you have been Busy

looks like a BIG piece of Chocolate, mmmmmm be cool if they made chocolate bren carriers , I did eat a Chocolate stuart ice cream cake before.

CHEERS
yours in restoration
BIG MIKE

jeff davis · #30 30-10-05, 01:20

How many of us current and former C.I.C types out there?
My affiliated Unit is The Royal Westminster Regiment.
They had a Carrier up until about 6 yrs ago ,sold it to another C.I.C Officer for 400 bucks and He sold It for alot More to someone in Alberta,I think The Regiment thought he was going to keep it and bring it to Westie functions.
regards Jeff