Canadian T16

[JUAN PRIEN]

Hello: i´m, argentina, i have an T16, ex argentine army, and i whant rtestorate them like an canadian vehicle, in normandy, june 44´. Mi first question is: i saw an canadian report nº 141, this shjow the state of equipment in this time, the whole 1º cnd Army just have 155 T16. So: what units have them, and for what task?. I need choiced between 3º cnd infantry div. or 2º cnd armd bde, what formation have t16, for make the unit identification. Another ask: the bridge cross disk in the MK1 have the number 5 ( this wheigt). The T16 have the same number ?. I saw the incredible T16 of mike Shiver, the color is very beautiful, but is the correct??. I belive the "vert foncé" is a little more dark. Have you the RAL number of the exactely color? i belive is the RAL 6020. Thank you

[Stewart Loy]

to "Surviving T-16" on this forum: surviving T16s

There are lots of good pix there, even some examples down near you.

The machines were manufactured at a jeep factory in Mass. USA and would have been given a coat of 'jeep' paint at the factory - so Rod Shavers example is painted the right colour.

For more pix, many in colour, try to locate the last years offerings from the Military Vehicle Preservation Association - "Army Motors". There was a very well done series detailing the construction, wartime usage, and restoration of the T-16.

The T-16 was designed to be a gun tractor, towing the 6-pounder anti-tank gun. The period photos show many machines fitted with heavy machine guns from downed aircraft, loaded with booty, and some even rigged with makeshift covers for the crews.


Stewart

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Juan, first of all, welcome to this forum!

I see you already found the pictures of Rod Shaver's T16 on my T16 site. Here's hoping you will post some pictures of your T16 soon.

As Stewart explained, by June 1944 Canada had put the T16 into use towing the 6-pdr AT gun, but also as a 4.2-inch Mortar Carrier. See the following threads for more information:
- Wartime T16 pictures
- Carrier, 4.2 inch Mortar (T16)
- Picture ID challenge: T16's near Caen
- A Brief History of the T-16 Carrier

Hope this helps,
regards,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Stewart Loy
For more pix, many in colour, try to locate the last years offerings from the Military Vehicle Preservation Association - "Army Motors". There was a very well done series detailing the construction, wartime usage, and restoration of the T-16.

Stewart, could you please list the exact issue numbers? I know the series was pubished, but haven't heard from the author since discussing a number of pictures. Would like to see the end result.

H.

[Brian Gough]

Hanno,

that series of articles "The T16 Universal Carrier" by Terry Johns ran in Army Motors as follows:

#105 Fall 2003 p. 19-25 America's Bren Gun Carrier
#106 Winter 2004 p. 21-27 Part II: the Swiss Connection
#110 Winter 2005 p. 3 -14 .....and the Canadian Connection

Brian
(answering for Stewart)

[sapper740]

Originally posted by JUAN PRIEN
Hello: i´m, argentina, i have an T16, ex argentine army,

Ola Senor Prien! Que paso? Yo tengo uno camietta C15 Canadiense y necessito informacion por favor. Yo hablo pequito Espanol so I'm going to switch to English. I own a 1942 C15 Canadian Military Pattern truck that was once owned by the Argentinian army or Navy. The truck had a crest of the "Automovil Club Argentino" attached to the radiator grill. Apparently, the Argentinian owner of the truck bought it as surplus and drove it to los Estados Unidos. I've included a picture of it. I tried to contact the club but have had no response to my emails. I would dearly love to find the history of my truck, would you help me contact the club and also check any military records that might still exist?
My email address is: sapper740@charter.net

I believe the address of the automobile club is:

Avda. del Libertador 1850, C-1425AAR Buenos Aires - Argentina

[JUAN PRIEN]

Ok guys. thank you for your response. If i understand, almost 7º Infantry brigade had t16 in normandy, or a conmemorative vehicle in Eede is an historic mistake?. The REGIMENT DE LA CHAUDIERE is a very good option. This regiment exist now?. Have an press officer. Can i speak whit this person. Where?. In te matter of the color, the green of Mike Shaver´s carrier is very beutiful, and if you think is correct, i choose this. The photos show my carrier in the actually state, i am waiting your information before paint them.

[Stewart Loy]

Juan,

Nice looking T-16! Most of the stuff up north has been ravaged by the Swiss following the last big war in Europe. Some US military vehicle 'reference' books do not even recognise that the US build vehicle would not have come from the factory with data plates in German, French and Romanch!

I would be very interested in seeing more pictures of the driving and crew compartments.

I will pull up the reference material that I dug up when I was researching the original colour of these vehicles.


Regards,


Stewart

[Stewart Loy]

Juan,

As stated previously, the T-16 was made at a jeep factory, so would have been painted a 'jeep' colour. While this would lead a simple armour buff to believe that a paint job was just a call to the paint guys away, the 'real colour' of those pesky 1/4 ton trucks is hotly debated.

I have condensed much of the data that seemed to make sence about paint - colour, gloss, numbers, stenciling, etc. and copied it here. If any jeep guys don't agree I will be happy to put the T-16 next to the jeep on a bright sunny day - and drive over them just to prove the point ( if there was one ).

Here it is:

WWII Jeep Paint

OVERVIEW

The original color paint used on WWII Jeeps was an Olive-Drab (OD) Green. Lusterless Olive Drab paint had an average life span of 18 months. It was to be repainted after this time with another coat of OD.
One thing to note is that WW II Navy jeeps were hardly ever, IF EVER, seen painted navy gray in WW II. An admiral painted one, and that is about it. The basic navy jeep of WW II was the same Olive Drab (OD) green as the army jeeps. More about this later.
Many people have been told, wrongly, that there is an ¡¥Early WWII¡¦, and a different, ¡¥Late WWII¡¦ OD paint color. Most often the incorrect info is the early war vehicles should be a lighter OD (more olive in color) paint, while a darker OD (more green in color) should be on late war vehicles. This early and late war color difference holds true for canvas web gear that the GI¡¦s carried, but does not hold true for paint jobs from the factory in WWII. The QMC (Quartermaster Corps) and the ORD (Ordnance Dept.) were in charge of setting up the specifications for the paint & color, and seeing to it that the manufacturers of the paint and the vehicles met those specs.
FACTORY Paint
This section is specifically about production paint on vehicles that were produced and delivered to the US Military in WWII.
Willys and Ford both used the same color OD paint, #319, throughout the entire production from 1941 to 1945. Documentation in the National Archives, Willys Motors, GMC, White, Mack and Ford data and QMC/ORD publications proves that only one color was used in production. ¡§Lusterless Olive Drab¡¨ was the color used on WWII production vehicles; Jeeps, Dodges, Chevy¡¦s, GMCs, Halftracks, Armored Cars, Tanks, etc.

Cross References for:
Lusterless Olive Drab, QMC spec 1-173, ES-474b or ORD ES-680
Arco No. 236-60744
DuPont No. 1070-019
Murphy No. NU-5927
Willey No. 1886


In WWII, the QMC/ORD laid out the exact way to use the Lusterless Olive Drab paint and this included the proper thinner, primer and metal prep. Government specifications were very strict. QMC and ORD Inspectors would not accept paint that was not within the specifications that were set down by the agency. This is fact and research into the QMC files will prove this out. The QMC had a very specific set of specifications on not just the paint composition, but on the whole painting procedure as well. ES-474, 474a, 474b and the later ES - 680 were the painting specifications, and they included the paint, primer, thinner, metal prep and application of the paint on production vehicles and on the use of Lusterless Olive Drab. In fact, the thickness of paint, (and not the number of coats), is also spelled out in the QMC specs. The thickness specifications were the same all throughout production.

There are very rigid paint mixing and application standards in automotive production painting. A color pigment specialist was a very high paying job years ago. Many people don¡¦t know how large quantities of paint are mixed. In factory work, paint is mixed 300 to 500 pounds (or more) of color at one time. Paints are mixed to a weight formula that is very exact. By using the formulas, you can actually be colorblind and still mix the pigments to the exact color every time. There are pages and pages of documents and formulas for paint in the Ford Motor Company Archives. The paint formulas did go through some changes, but the colour was still the same.

Ford, Willys, et al, all used a very controlled environment in their coatings application.

WWII Lusterless Olive Drab MUST be used with the proper rust-inhibiting primer. This was spelled out in the QMC specs. Think Red Oxide Primer.

Metal prep specs. were changed during the war however. This was because some parts and vehicles, although well painted, had rust underneath the paint, due to water being absorbed through the porous paint and reaching the metal underneath. This rusting is usually due to improper metal prep before painting the item.

Re: Spare Parts

Replacement / Spare parts sometimes had different painting specifications depending on their intended use. While there is a variation in finishes in spare parts (replacement parts to be exact) most variations are not so different as to be called another colour.

Things to Consider

I have NOT said, "All OD is Lusterless Olive Drab OD".
I have said that ¡¥Lusterless Olive Drab¡¦ paint and ¡¥Lusterless Olive Drab #319¡¦ paint were the same colour.
I have also stated that only one color of paint was used in WWII in QMC/ORD tactical vehicle production. I am talking about military vehicles. Paint specifications for items of a non-tactical nature are not the same as paint specifications for items that are tactical.
There were other Olive Drab paint colors used.
There was a full gloss OD that was used for non-tactical vehicles.
The lanterns, ammo cans, etc may have been painted with Olive Drab #108, which is a ¡¥gloss¡¦ paint. A lantern or ammo can is not a vehicle, and is not an item that has to be a camouflage colour.

WWII Paint vs. Today's Paint

Contrary to what several paint vendors state, it is incorrect to talk about 'early' and 'late' WWII OD Green. There was no such thing as "early¡¨ or "late" WWII OD paint. All World War Two jeeps (and other WW2 vehicles) used by the US Army were all painted 'Lusterless Olive Drab' Synthetic Enamel. There was ONLY one WW2 'Lusterless Olive Drab' colour used in production for jeeps and tactical vehicles. There was NO "light" or "dark", nor "early" or "late" Olive Drab colour in WWII vehicle production. 'Lusterless Olive Drab' & "Lusterless Olive Drab, #319" were the exact same colour. So if #319 in WWII was the same colour as WWII Lusterless Olive Drab, can the same still be said today? NO! The #319 that is for sale today is NOT the correct color for the actual WWII Lusterless Olive Drab #319 green synthetic enamel paint. The colour is too light, and not as dark green as the original Lusterless Olive Drab color. I have seen actual cans of original WWII dated Lusterless Olive Drab #319 green paint. None of the paint offered by any of the current paint vendors is a correct match for this paint. This is why, when you find NOS parts that are still in their original WWII OD paint, they do not match the brand new paint that you just bought and are using to paint your jeep. This is also why when you look at colour WWII photographs and WWII film that show vehicles, they all look much darker and "greener" than the paint that is now available.

„h Lusterless paint is somewhere between a Flat paint and a Semi-Gloss paint.
„h Flat Olive Drab paint actually attracts and holds dirt, hand prints, stains, etc.
„h Factory WW II Jeep paint was an enamel, although lacquer was a very commonly found type of ¡¥army surplus¡¦ OD paint after the war.
„h Field paint was ¡§gasoline soluble", meaning, it came in a concentrated form, and was to be mixed with gasoline to thin and then be applied.
„h In post-war paint, the 1st digit denotes the gloss factor of the paint. 2 = Flat. 3 = Lusterless. 4 = Gloss
„h #23070 is a post 1945 to mid-1950's Flat Olive Drab. It is a camouflage Green
„h #33070 is a post 1945 Semi gloss Olive Drab, and it is not the same as WW II Lusterless Olive Drab.
„h #33070 is somewhat close to WWII, but it is too gray to be a match for WW II Lusterless Olive Drab.
„h #33070 - 1941-43 (Early WW11 Darker OD) - FALSE!
„h #319 - 1944-45 (Late WW11 Lighter OD) - FALSE!
„h #24087 is Mid 1950's to Post Vietnam Flat Olive Drab
„h #34087 is Mid 1950's to Post Vietnam lusterless Olive Drab


Olive Drab paint is still available on the web and from dealers; however, there is currently no commercially available paint that is 100% the correct color for WWII Lusterless Olive Drab.
Some paint vendors will also tell you that Olive Drab #34087 is the same as WWII Lusterless Olive Drab, but this too is incorrect.

#34087 is a post-war color paint and although close, it is not the same color as the WWII #319 paint. Even so, 99% of WWII Jeep restorers paint their jeeps a #34087 Lusterless Olive Drab (Semi Gloss), because; it is pretty close to WWII #319; and because it is more water & stain repellent than #24087 Flat OD.
The Paint Colors used on standard WWII Army Jeeps
¡P Blue Drab : The Hood #'s were originally painted on at the factories in a Blue Drab. Blue Drab looks whitish in B&W photos.
¡P Flat White :
o Front & Rear unit markings on Front Bumper and Rear Bumperettes;
o Stars - Hood, Front Bumper, Left and Right rear 1/4 panel, and Rear panel on early jeeps without a Gas Can Rack.
¡± With exceptions being;
¡± a short period from the end of 1941 to the first months of 1942 when White star with Blue or Red Ball in center was in use.
¡± Also, a yellow star was authorized early in 1942.
¡± Also, sometimes the "Gas / Blister Agent Detecting paint was applied to the Star on the hood.
o Flat white paint was also used in the field for hood numbers on jeeps;
¡± 1) If the jeep was rebuilt overseas, with a different or new replacement hood being put on.
¡± 2) If all hood markings had been covered over with OD paint to better camouflage the jeep for some covert mission. Once the mission was completed, the hood #'s were painted back on the hood in flat white.
¡± 3) Vehicles transferred to and from other branches of the service. (USA -->> USMC).
¡± 4) Stolen vehicles. A new or fictitious number would be painted on the newly 'acquired' vehicle.
¡P Olive Drab : Jeep Body, Body Parts, Frame, Wheels, Mechanical Components, Willys MB Jeep Engine (Ford GPW Engines were Gray)
¡P Olive Drab OR Black, Glossy : Air Cleaner Crossover Tube, Carb Elbow, Radiator, Radiator Hose Tubes, Radiator Fan Blades, Oil Dipstick & Oil Filler Tube, Oil Filter Mounting Bracket, Coil
¡P Black, Glossy : Air Cleaner, Oil Filter Housing & Rings, Generator & Starter, Horn, Distributor Housing,
¡P Black Wrinkle (also called 'Japan' finish) : Voltage Regulator
¡P Gray, Semi-Gloss : Ford GPW Engine (Willys MB Engines were OD)
¡P Unpainted : Fuel Filter (or OD), Carburetor, Fuel Pump
NAVY Vehicles
The first jeeps owned by the Navy and by the Marines were painted Lusterless Olive Drab. These were Ford GP's built on Navy and Marine contracts in 1941.
No Navy jeeps were delivered painted Gray. All Navy GPW's were delivered in Lusterless Olive Drab. MB's were delivered in Lusterless Olive Drab and also in USMC "Forest Green". Gray painted Navy jeeps occasionally were repainted that color in the field by individuals in the Navy.
There were a few vehicles (Jeeps are not included on the list) that were delivered in Gray. One example is the Ford GTB bomb trucks. One Navy contract was delivered painted "Ocean Gray". Also, Navy Ford station wagons were delivered painted Black.
What color did the Navy paint vehicles in combat areas? Forest Green, Olive Drab or camouflage.
USMC Vehicles
Did the Marine Corps paint their vehicles Marine Corps Green or Olive Drab?
USMC vehicles were painted Forest Green.
All Ford GPW Jeeps diverted to the Marines were delivered in Lusterless Olive Drab.
Willys MB Jeeps produced under contract were painted either Lusterless Olive Drab with a fog coat of Forest Green, or delivered in Forest Green.
This was a Lusterless (meaning flat) green.
USMC jeeps on Iwo Jima, and other places in WWII were painted a camouflage scheme. They were painted that way in the field and were not delivered painted that way.

Canadian Jeeps
In 1942 Canada acquired it's first jeeps from Willys. These Willys 'MB' Jeeps were made to specific Canadian contracts and varied from the US Army Jeeps and US Marine Corps Jeeps. They were unique vehicles. These Canadian MB's were not painted US olive drab, but a darker, browner 'Khaki No.3'. Canada later purchased both the standard model Willys MB and the standard model Ford GPW. Both came in the standard American Olive Drab color, a color that Canada adopted for all Canadian military vehicles in mid 1944.

Having said all that - what colour did I paint my T-16? I was treated to a few coats of Chemical Agent Resistant Coating ( CARC ) in 34087. I chose this based on the resistance to scuffing and durability as much as colour. I have not painted on stencils or markings, as I wait for calls from a movie mogul and my next film role.

Have look at my machine in the Army Motors mags - the colour is quite well reproduced.



Stewart

PS - where is your siren?

[JUAN PRIEN]

Hello stewart: the siren is only one of the elements missing before i take property of T16. Anything light survived. Another missing objet is the town hook, the rear box, the grease pistol, the fire supressor ( don´t know the correct name), the gasoline tanks, the motor coverage, the motor exhaust and this cover, the battery, the water bidons....... The most complicated is the guns matter, because in argentine don´t served stens, brens,vickers, 4,2" mortars, and the argentine law not included the import of historic guns. I just can take easy Lee enfields. Your paint information is very complet, but my doubt is: i´m scale modelist, and use frecuently a TAMIYA acrilic paint Olive Drab for my shermans, jeeps, etc 1:35, and the aspect of this color is completly diferent to the pait of mike´s t16. I dont understand. I belive the Canadian color is the english green," vert foncé" in francais. Is a mistake?. I send you an drive compartement photo of my carrier. A doubt of the rear box: in an other argentine t16, the rear box is complety plane(sorry, dont know the exactly word) don´t have the X shape like the collectors photos what i saw. whats is correct, or both types are corrects?

[Stewart Loy]

Juan,

Your T-16 came out of the factory with a jeep green on it - only designed to last for a year before it needed a repaint. Back then the paints were not as good as they are now, not stabilized to resist the perishing affects of sunlight, thinned with whatever was availible in the field, etc. Paint it with whatever you have handy - and if it does not look good paint it again - just like in the army. I have noted as amny as 7 layers of paint on these units when I strip them down.

The Canadian colour is the English green - but these vehicles were painted in the USofA, and not resprayed prior to entering service with Canadian units.

Rear box - has an X for strength in the sheet metal. Mine was converted by the Swiss after the war, and flattened a bit when a pioneer rack was bolted on. A reproduction box may not have these ribs, but would be a handy place for your Carrier stuff.

Good luck.


Stewart

[JUAN PRIEN]

Thank you. tomorrow i need speak whit the paint man, and i can take more detailed photos to the driver cab. i don´t change anithing yet, so remain original ( don´t know if argentines change any part )

[Stewart Loy]

Juan,

I think that your machine has been unmolested - save the few missing bits.

You don't happen to have the 2" mortar mount do you? I have a CD with pictures of that part - I will see if I can dig them up at home.


Stewart

[JUAN PRIEN]

What mortar mount?. i belive the T16 is just used for towing 6 pounder AT or 4,2" mortar in Canadian army at least, the last inside the vehicle in E.T. The 2" company mortar, is an equipement of heavy riflemen platton, and i belive this units use the MK1 or Mk2. i´m mistake??. Another ask: the two bottles beside the window for bren gun, are an fire extintor ( red?) at right, whats the other in the left?. (bronze color). Another question: is very difficult for me import a vickers MMG. I saw an canadian photo whit a T16 equipped whit an .50 browing M2. This guns served in argentine, so is a little more easy to take them. Is possible what an mortar company or an AT battery have a MMG like the heavy browning?

[Stewart Loy]

Juan,

That thing that you smash your leg on when you get in from the gunners side of the vehicle is the mortar mount base. In your photo it has 6 holes in it. The 2" mortar was a replacement for the 4" smoke generator that was fired by a Ross rifle cut down on Canadian Carriers. They are also seen, often in pairs, on tanks and armoured cars. While it could probably put an eye out, the 2" mortar is quite a small animal. the Carrier borne version has a very large baseplate compared to the 'infantry' version.

I have seen stowage diagrams of the T-16 that have 2 of the brass fire extinquishers - one on either side of the 'Bren gun hole' in front of the gunner.

The use of the .50 Browning heavy machine gun looks to have been a cobbled up pintle mount affixed to the front of the armour structure of the T-16. I suspect that a combination of ground mounts and discarded HMGs would have been pressed into service so many years ago. I think everybody feels better when they grab onto the spade grips of the M2 - it must have been a popular swap.



Stewart

[JUAN PRIEN]

Ah! ok!, you speak smoke mortar!. I be happy if you can send my any information of this piece, but just if realy is used for canadian army in Normandy.
I think too the M2 is a nice toy, but not have chance in my vehicle. Altough, my T 16 have three browning pedestal muont socket in the rear compartiment. This sockets are attached in argentine?. What can put in them, or i need eliminated them?. In argentine used an 7,65 mm copy of 0.30 1919 browning MG. I can buy this gun, or copied them, because are easily to see. The canadian used too??.
Another ask ( sorry i have hundred, i fear be an molest for you):
I have see an bipod mount attached above the exhaust pipes cover. For what gun is this?

Juan can I get a better pic from you on how you mounted your mk1 Bren tripod on your carrier. Thanks mate

BIG MIKE

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
Juan can I get a better pic from you on how you mounted your mk1 Bren tripod on your carrier.

Mike, see https://www.mapleleafup.nl/t16carrier/t16_sn11644.html for the source of the pic.

Cheers,
Hanno

[Stewart Loy]

Originally posted by JUAN PRIEN
Ah! ok!, you speak smoke mortar!. I be happy if you can send my any information of this piece, but just if realy is used for canadian army in Normandy.

Juan,

There are also a few pix of the small mortar mount on Hanno's site - minus the mortar. The mount is a bit different on my MkII* Universal Carrier, but it looks as if it would work for the device.

I suspect that the small machine guns were added by your army after the war. The Bren tripod mount is T-16 exclusive and uses a bent bar stock steel clamp on the engine compartment as well as 2 brackets welded to the back of the hull amour. Placing the tripod in this location guarantees that it will pick up every speck of dust that the tracks generate when you drive down the road! Hours to fun!

Check your Private Messages - I sent you something.



Stewart

[JUAN PRIEN]

Mike: happy birthday!.The pic that you see is another T16, no my T16. I don´t have the bren, even the tripod, because this tipe of gun has never come to argentine. Argentine used american built guns, but whith other calibres. The standard is the 7,65 mm and the 9mm para. So, i have a great problem whit this gun, because the argentine law don´t have permissions to import or exhibit historical no-operating guns. I can solved this problem if i take the option of make an 4,2" mortar vehicle, because the base plate were transported in the front of the vehicle, closing the bren
hole. altough, the problem subsit if the mortar team have an bren like a team gun. what do yo belive?. What were the composition of this team. How many men, and whats gun were used?. If you( or another lector) know somethink, please let me know.
Stewart: i understand, so the browning sockets are unuseful?. if the bren were used by the mortar team, where put the bren tripod, if i can import them!!??

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by JUAN PRIEN
I can solved this problem if i take the option of make an 4,2" mortar vehicle, because the base plate were transported in the front of the vehicle, closing the bren hole. altough, the problem subsit if the mortar team have an bren like a team gun. what do yo belive?. What were the composition of this team. How many men, and whats gun were used?. If you( or another lector) know somethink, please let me know.

Juan, see the thread Carrier, 4.2 inch Mortar (T16).

Clive: maybe you can add a little more information gleaned from the T-16/4.2-inch mortar file in the Public Archives? Please?

Re. the colour: if you like Rod Shaver's paint colour, click here to send him an e-mail and ask for the information.

Hope this helps,
Hanno

[Stewart Loy]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
: if you like Rod Shaver's paint colour, send him an e-mail and ask for the information.

Hope this helps,
Hanno

Rod also has a web page at:

http://www.museumofmilitaryhistory.o...Vehicle_Parts/

Lots of T-16 bits. Rod is very helpful and the repro parts were nice, fit well, came with all parts.


Stewart

[G166UC]

Juan,
I guess since my name is coming up all over the place here, I better throw my two cents in .
First of all, the color I used is WW2 OD lusterless 34087, and the brand of paint used is Aervoe Pacific Co. It is a Brand of paint sold here in the States, but is the standard Mil-spec color. From all the research I have done, this was the standard color of Allied vehicles in 1944. But who am I to say what the "correct" color is! I deal in WW2 NOS military vehicle parts, and I have seen dozens of different shades of OD green on different parts. I don't think there is an absolutely correct OD color. Every lot was a little different in those days I'm sure.
Concerning the bracket on the left side of the gunners position, mounted on the side armor. That is part of the 2 inch mortar shock mount used on Universal carriers. Yous is missing the rubber shock mount and the upper mortar mount. I had these reproduced from an original last year. The only problem is finding the correct 2 inch mortar for the mount. Universal carriers were issued a special mortar with a different type of base that mounted in the bracket.
I have lots of spare parts available for the T-16. I think most of my list is up on the web site Hanno listed above.
Thanks Rod Shaver (Not Mike!)

[Stewart Loy]

Here is a picture of the modified 2" mortar employed on the Carrier. This one is mounted in my MkII* U/C, not a T-16, but you can compare it to the small spade base of the 'regular' small bomb-thrower.


Stewart

[JUAN PRIEN]

Stewart: the 2" mortar is a beutiful piece, but i belive this element don´t have use in an 4,2" mortar vehicle. When you mentioned this, i belive you speak an any form of multiple smoke discharge mortar, like as modern ( an ancient) tank use. So, if concentrate the attention in a 4,2" mortar vehicle like as photo show, they have some pieces i don´t know.Whats the rear right side plate?.Where i can take an complete 4,2" mortar manual,whit any piece in datail?. I belive the tube and the base plate is relatively easy of copied, but the bipod whit the inclinometer and aiming instrument, and the ring what take the tube, are complicated pieces, maybe buy them are the best option. Where can i take them?. Another necesary elements are the mortar bombs transport tube, and a PIAT is a very nice toy why can have them to sold?.
I belive i don´t have problem whit an importation of this tipe of pieces, because anything ( except a few mad men like us) can recognized this stange pieces
The photo is good, but i can recognized many details. have you an better and more datailed pix?. Regards.Juan

http://www.servicepub.com/images/4.2mortar01.jpg
Linked from Carrier, 4.2 inch Mortar (T16).

[JUAN PRIEN]

The pic show my T16´s driver backup. If possible what the impressed number are be the vehicle number. I see " GAU CI 24289". Or is only an piece number?. I´m very happy becuase i dyscover and realy original detail, an pencil inscription " Holes out of line". I belive an massachuset guy put them.
If possible the seat fill has been horse hair?

[JUAN PRIEN]

This is the 6 pdr which i whant to buy, if the argentine army acept sell it out!!( very dificult). I have a doubt, is it a 6 pdr or an american 57 mm?. i didn´t take a cannon break pic, i belive the greater diference between them is this piece ( the english have and the american don´t have). The wheel rubbers are the original?

[Gunner]

Hola Juan:

The gun in your photo is the American made copy of the British/Canadian 6 pounder and was called the 57mm M1.

The key spotting features of the US version versus a UK/Canada version are the large 9.00X16 tyres and rims from the WC52 series of 3/4 ton trucks (the US intention was to tow the gun with the 6x6 version of the WC 52 family, the WC 62. Having the same wheels and tyres made sense.) and the large clamps holding the lower front shield flap in the stowed position. These clamps are similar to those on the M101 105mm howitzer and are a quick spotting feature when the wheels are obscured.

The Royal Artillery and later the British infantry were issued some 57mm M1 as part of lend lease. I can find no evidence that Canada used the M1 and must conclude that Canadian factories produced enough 6 pounders to meet the needs of Canadian anti-tank gunners.

If you decide to do your T16 as a gun tractor you will have the option of marking it for either the Royal Canadian Artillery or for a Canadian infantry unit as the gun was in service with both "Corps" during the Normany campaign.

Good luck in your research and restoration... the T16 has always been on my 'gotta get one' list, alas funds and opportunity have never coincided and I have to make do with a rather rough lower carriage and not much else... oh well, I take solace in my Mk II.

Salut, y force au canut! Mike

[JUAN PRIEN]

Helo mike. I saw your museum. congratulations, is a beautiful place. If i understan, the differences are insignificant. I saw a very complete Canuck site, and i learn what the infantry battalion have an AT unit, in the form of 5º platton, suport company. One posibility is chose some infantry battalion, so that, put in my vehicle the unit insignia. But how was the service tactical insignia of AT platon?.
Maybe another ( and better) option is the 3º canadian AT Regiment, attached to 3º Cdn Inf.Div.In this case, how is the tactical insignia?. Another ask: how many crews, and which ranks had a tripulation of one AT T16? The 3º cnd AT Reg. have any name ( like " regiment de la chaudiere", for example)?. Had an special beret badge like a Inf. Reg?. Have an distintive arm legend? The unifor is the infantry standard?. I have great interest of remake an original canadian vehicle, and i don´t whant to make any history mistake. Thank you very much!Juan

[John McGillivray]

Originally posted by Gunner
I can find no evidence that Canada used the M1 and must conclude that Canadian factories produced enough 6 pounders to meet the needs of Canadian anti-tank gunners.

At the end of paragraph 37 in CMHQ Report 141 it states the following:

“In Italy a slight deficiency was covered by the use of the 57-mm M1 anti-tank gun. This is the American counterpart of the 6-pr. The deficiency was made up by the end of the year.”

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dhh/downloads/cmhq/cmhq141.pdf