Experimental Carrier #3168

[Tony Smith]

Yes, not a typo, I did say LP3! Well, it's certainly a good imitation of one, what with the front steering idler. There was Only 1 protoype LP3 made (SAR Hull No 4428),so this Front Idler has either been sourced from spares or off a Tracked Truck, 1 Ton. There lots of missing bits and repro sections on the hull, but wouldn't you like something different?
Item No 330112165677.

[Tony Smith]

Sold for $5000 Buy It Now!

[Ryan]

And I was about to ask what people think it's value is!
Seeing as it was missing most of it internals and a bit of it's armour (replaced with sheet metal). Adding a bit to the price for the adjustable steering. My guess would have been between $2500 and $3000.
Is that close or am I being unrealistic seeing as these things are bloody hard to come across in the first place?

[Rob Dyba]

Let's hope it gets a new lease of life & does not go back into storage for another 22 years. Anyone familiar with the buyer???

Rob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Tony
According to the Ebay description this Carrier has the Hull Number #3168. This one featured in Mike Cecil's book as being converted to front idler steering. #4428 was described as a fore-runner to the LP3 and was converted in 1944. I think given the price of restored Carriers these days $5000 is reasonable. Try buying a set of half decent tracks for under $1000.
Bob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

You will all be glad to know this one has come to South Australia and it's another one of my contacts. He is very happy.
Bob

[phoenix]

Good to hear that we know where it has gone, and presumably in good hands

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all - just going on from my last post the following is an extract from Mike Cecil's Profile book on Carriers. I'm in constant touch with the new owner who is picking it up in the near future. Then I'll be there with the camera and start a new thread on this unique Carrier.

"During 1944, an improved model or the MG Carrier was designed and a pilot model built by modifying LF’2A Carrier with hull number 4428. This incorporated a number of modifications and improvements which had previously been tested at various times on the model LP2A, but not incorporated into any single Carrier. The result was designated the “Carrier, MG (Aust) No.3” or “LP3’

DESCRIPTION

The LP3 was similar in overall design and layout to the LP2A Carrier then in service, having an all welded hull of ABP3 plate and crew of four. It also used the same engine, transmission, armament and basic equipment. There were, however, a number of differences, both major and minor, which were designed to improve the overall performance and handling characteristics of the locally produced Carrier.

The most visible difference from the LP2A Carrier was in the steering, as the LP3 was fitted with steering which acted on the front track adjuster wheel. This form of steering had been fitted experimentally to an LP2 Carrier, with hull number 3168, and to an LP2A Carrier, with hull number 2496, as early as November 1942. Though the initial results were mixed, they were encouraging enough for further development and the information gained from these earlier experiments helped in the design of the steering used on the LP3 Carrier. Front wheel steer was also a feature of the Australian I-ton tracked truck".

Bob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to present a very historic and significant Australian LP2 Bren Gun Carrier with Hull number 3168 and manufactured by Victorian Railways in 1942.

This was one of three experimental Carriers utilising a front idler steering system as opposed to the conventional cross shaft track warping. The fate of the other two Carriers, #2496, a contemperory of #3168 and #4428 an LP2A that was converted in late 1944, is unknown. This Carrier, 3168, had been living in a shed for the last 25 years and was recently bought on Ebay by a mate of mine, Colin, here in South Australia.

It took Colin and myself a while to nut out the different steering system but when we did it was simplicity itself. We are unaware as to whether this system was any good as they never went into production and at this stage archived test documents have not come to light.

Bob

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Details abve the differential in the rear hull.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

A general view of the offside front idler steering assembly.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

A close-up of Pic 3

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

This was the method utilised to adjust the track tension. Gone are the track adjusting pawls and the track adjustment bar the "Shepherds Crook" to be replaced by a rotating cam plate that was probably driven with just a large spanner.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

If you look very carefully on the edge of the track adjusting cam you will notice some holes. These were utilised in looking the cam into place. This image is the locking system for the nearside cam.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

This locking mechanism is comprised of a piece of flat bar with a peg on the end that enters the holes in the cam. The mechanism is welded into place with a pad allowing the flat bar to slide in and out and then being locked into place with a quick release catch. The image shows both the front and top view.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

The offside cam locking mechanism is different and we presume that as this was an experimental Carrier they would have tried a different approach. This side simply utilised a threaded stud into the locking holes.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Now to the inside. This is the steering system without the steering cam plate.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

The steering cam plate.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

The adjustable rod connecting the steering cam plate to the steer rod mechanism.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

The whole setup. The red line denotes the position of the steering connecting rod where it attaches to the cam plate and exits the hull on the off side.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

This image depicts where the connecting rod exits the hull and attaches itself to the large drive plate seen earlier.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

This image depicts the steering shaft that starts at the offside drive plate, enters the hull and traverses the front to connect up to the nearside drive plate.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

And this is where the shaft exits the nearside.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Being an earlier production Carrier it utilised a different coupling system between the gearbox and differential. This one attached to the differential was known as an 8 point spline and taper coupling with the one attached to the gearbox being the same configuration.

Hope you enjoyed the tour folks.

Bob

[Keith Webb]

Thanks for the brilliant photographic survey.

What are the plans from here? Does Colin have a timeframe?

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Keefy
Corowa next year irrespective of the progress of the restoration and with or without Colin. She is going. BTW Colin is another lurker who needs to be prompted out of seclusion.
Bob

[Max Hedges]

Bob did other bits come the carrier like engine etc etc
Max

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Max
No motor, gearbox and none of most of the second fit gear. However this won't be a problem as Salesman Bob is on the hunt for all these parts. Is there anything we might need in your upcoming clearance sale?
Bob

[Max Hedges]

Originally posted by Bob Moseley
Hi Max
No motor, gearbox and none of most of the second fit gear. However this won't be a problem as Salesman Bob is on the hunt for all these parts. Is there anything we might need in your upcoming clearance sale?
Bob

could be........... hey I better watch you lot

[Tony Smith]

Some time ago, Keith posted pics of this naked Tracked Truck (Perhaps it was a mockup or prototype? This follows the layout of the 2pdr Carrier and Mortar Carrier, while the production TT had the Driver on the left and engine on the right.)

Anyhow, it shows the idler steering rod without meddlesome armour plate in the way: (Where does it connect to the steering wheel?)