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#1
11-01-08, 01:46
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A question of some delicacy...
Most, if not all, members of this and other forums have a considerable investment tied up in their collections of militaria related items...vehicles, communication gear, parts, uniforms, badges etc, etc, etc.
What to do before the Grim Reaper comes calling? We all have to kick the bucket eventually, so perhaps we can openly discuss what methods one has contemplated, actionned or otherwise committed to in order to successfully transfer ownership of cherished, valuable items to those that we deem worthy. Does one keep adding codicils to ones Will as circumstances dictate? Does one name a trusted friend in one's Will so that same can disburse one's artifacts in a responsible manner? Does one itemize every such item and name a person to whom it goes? What impact would "a trusted friend" have upon the possible other wishes of a surviving spouse? In the province of Ontario particularly, I'm on the lookout for any method of avoiding estate fees, however devious that method may seem to be. Bequeathing to siblings I think, are exempt from related governmental fees. Thought? Comments? Ideas?
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PRONTO SENDS 
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#2
11-01-08, 02:36
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Re: A question of some delicacy...
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#3
11-01-08, 13:32
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HMMmmmmmm...
Jon.
When one gets past the 6 decade mark these thoughts become more frequent..In my case I have been contemplating selling my manuals as a complete entity...lock stock and barrel ,hopefully to someone in the Ottawa area that will keep the manuals "Hobby that pays for itself"alive... My manuals are the largest collection of Canadian Military Vehicle manuals in the world that are available to the public as reproductions.. To loose that valuable resource to the grim reaper would hurt the whole craft and hobby..worldwide I would obviously like to keep the collection in Canada.. I will never bequeth it to a museum...ever.. Once inside a museum,the resource is lost to the public.. I am open to offers and suggestions.. All communications will be private and off line..at my e-mail address on my web site.. A noble question and it should be discussed.   
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk:
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#4
11-01-08, 18:33
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Thoughts
If you donate to a museum, as I have in the past, you never know if they are going to junk things in duse course, sell them, or make them available...or charge outrageous fees for copies.
I intend to appoint a literary executor, and ask them to dispose of everything left for maximum gain for my family with the proviso that it goes to someone who appreciates it. Tough nut to crack I think. Or alternatively I'll dispose of it all beforehand and shove the £££ on deposit! However I have my literary copyrights to deal with so I'll still have to appoint an executor who knows their onions in that respect. Alex, you might consider setting up a charitable trust with trustees that can appoint new ones. I would then bequeath everything to the trust.
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#5
11-01-08, 19:00
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i intend to do 1 of 3 things
a. leave it to my wife to get rid of  that should fix her. or b. just refuse to die or c. just plan on going after finishing the last restoration.... like that will ever happen its just that simple i think
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44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw 44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR 41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C 42 6LB GUN and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
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#6
11-01-08, 20:30
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Best advice is to talk to an estate/tax lawyer. With our tax laws changing yearly they keep up to date. There are no death/estate taxes any more. The CRA considers the value of the estate at the moment before your death and uses that for your last income tax filing.
As to disposition you can appoint an executor (doesn't have to be your spouse) to distribute your earthly belongings. Somebody that knows the value helps. Your spouse can inherit everything without much penalty but children may generate taxation based on increased value. One loop hole is to set up a testamentary trust. Each trust is taxed as a separate person so your last tax filing doesn't get hit for big dollars. You can set up as many trusts as you like, vehicles to one person, radios to me, etc. I agree with those that won't donate to museums. I've seen all too often equipment sucked into a big black hole never to be seen by the public again.
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#7
11-01-08, 20:52
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I have heard the same sad story over and over. Guy dies, never told his wife what his stuff was worth, wife dispose of it real cheap, total strangers benefit from the deal of a life-time (variant, Dead guys best friends swarm widow with offers to take stuff off her hands/dispose of collection for her).
In either event the wife ends up losing significant dollars at a time when she could probably use them. My suggestion is that we include a letter with the will that outlines the rough monetary value of the bigger items (the C8 or the VC) as well as a rough value of the entire collection. Identify specific items that will be of interest to individual friends. Identify the friend or dealer with whom you have already discussed disposal and clearly indicate the terms of the deal (20% plus costs, etc...). For those one-of-a-kind items that you want to go to a specific museum ensure that they are clearly identified and make sure beforehand that the institution will accept them. Most collectors/museums donn't want your entire collection and will cherry-pick to get the rare items or those items needed to fill a gap. All of our collections have tons of common stuff and these take the most work to dispose of. This is where a trust-worthy dealer can help out the most. They usually need this stuff as stock but won't pay top dollar. It's OK (well, typical) to keep our hobby spending secret from our wives otherwise they would kill us. But once that point is moot then let them know what the value is in order that they can benefit.
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Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed. - M38A1, 67-07800, ex LETE
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#8
11-01-08, 20:53
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MOST government run museums are crap as far as donations are concerned. i have worked at 6 US army museums and for the most part (FT Knox is not included) they are places you would NOT want to donate to, never!!!!! the CMH that runs them is not intrested in artifacts for the most part, just publishing the history of XXXXXXX whatever.
even aberdeen is underfunded and when you look at the rare armor outside you will get a cold feeling all over when you see all the rust holes. now the museum in indiana is a non profit and takes care of the donations that it gets with a $100,000,000.00 expansion plan going on to make it the largest WWII vehicle museum in the world. it already houses the old victory museum form belguim. right now i hope to be able to turn my more than 10,000 colection into a non for profit museum someday. i will try to get a building and motor pool up latter this year. thanks dave
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44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw 44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR 41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C 42 6LB GUN and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
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#9
12-01-08, 00:20
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What happens if I don't live forever.
This point Jon has raised is one that most "collectors" never come to grips with until it's way, way, too late. Most would need to live to be 663 years old to finish what they have already.
I've been restoring military vehicles since my teens and over the last 30 years I have met/seen too many grey haired hoarders with massive collections of, be it, motorbikes, books, trucks, firearms or beer cans. Nothing is ever for sale and helping someone out with a hard to find part would destroy their collection. My favorite quote from one collector is " No, I need that, I'm going to restore all these when I retire and have more time", the bloke is 87. These individuals pass on leaving the wife, family and "good" friends to deal with rooms/yards full of junk. My suggestions, Make a will, your prices mean nothing so don't even try. At least some stuff will go to the right places/people. You could sell something before you die  Don't donate your collection to a museum, they don't see the same historic value as you do. People get shitty when the visit a museum and don't see their collection in pride of place just as you walk thru the door. It's a museum with a collections policy and usually limited funds, not a storage facility for deceased collectors. My wife is well informed in regards to my collection and it's only a matter of time before she lets the trolley jack down when I'm under the Ferret and the lot ends up on Ebay.
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#10
12-01-08, 01:15
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"before she lets the trolley jack down when I'm under the Ferret"
Ewww. Ugly. Orriblbe. (she woudn't do that, would she.....actually???) Then again, fail to keep her happy and... plonk, a Ferret in the chest and a boy toy in the Caribbean. Wife-O-mine has suggested a list (with prices) of my toys. I shall provide. I always do what I'm told. Anything goes mising, well, I'll...well I should....
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#11
12-01-08, 01:36
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Quote:
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#12
12-01-08, 02:53
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I have sold off a lot of stuff in the last two years. Turning 60 does that. I still have barns of crap but I was encouraged to buy most of it by Brian Gough. The simple instruction to Janet is call Brian. He knows what I paid, he knows what its worth now, and its his responsibility now to get rid of it.
Payback!  Barry
__________________
Every twenty minute job is one broken bolt away from a three day ordeal.
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#13
12-01-08, 03:49
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hi gents, and happy newyears!!
although some of you have seen a few more years than i have, this subject has been kicked around this household in the last year or so. with a wife who has no idea what my various collections are worth, and the arrival of my son dec 19/07 i thought it only prudent to leave her a record of the items and their current value in today's market, to be reviewed yearly and updated. what i did was a little time consuming yes, but well worth it. the first thing i did was to seperate those items which belonged to family members, took pictures of each item listing historic details, and simply stated that they were to be kept in the family at all costs. then i burned this to cdr. i did a similar thing with all my non heirloom items listing values for each item. i also named a few trustworthy people, some who frequent this very forum, whom she could contact for help in case of my demise. i also seperated these items into categories such as vehicles, medals and decorations, paper items, ect. my helmet collection i did as a seperate category due to it's size. i figured that the pictures would be of great help since she isn't that up on items such as putees and brodie helmet's. a will is a must, period. the only way i can say this is that i have seen what happens when people pass on and all the rats come out of the wood work...and it's rather disgusting. my father has been passing things on to me and my brother for years, his theory is why wait until your dead? i have seen some of jon's collection which is quite outstanding, and half of my library came from the heron road estate which brother al can confirm. this is a very important topic regardless of age because death knows no age, it could happen to anyone at any time......cover your collective asses and those of your loved ones!!! mike
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#14
12-01-08, 10:19
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Exactly the same position here and a permanent relocation in the offing to more southerly climes some 2000 miles ESE also focuses the mind. All the mil stuff and truck with 3 tons of spares gone to a good home; now just a matter of clearing my workshop of 30 years of two-way radio crap that's been accumulating, full trailer No. 2 off to the tip this weekend, several more to go yet. R.
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#15
12-01-08, 13:33
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Hi Fellas. I thought I should air some dirty laundry here with respect to this post...
Several years ago a certain friend of mine passed suddenly, at the ripe old age of 55. He had just retired, intent on spending his golden years puttering around in the shop, restoring all the stuff he had amassed. Lo and behold, the Man took him early. I would have to say that I was his closest friend and confidant. At the time of his sudden illness, the subject of his property was on my mind but how does one mention the disposal of ones goods, especially with the hope of a full recovery on the horizon? My friend had told me verbally about some items he would like me to have, in the event of his death. It never went to paper, we always had gentlemens agreements and such. Over the years we traded square back and forth, never changing a dollar by hand. To make matters worse, I also had some of my own projects etc stored at his property. Well, one day I get the call. My friend had passed. I made a visit to a relative, the one who was in charge of the estate. In his opinion much of my friends "collection" was junk although he wouldn't let any of it go, afterall, I, being the close friend might just be trying to rip off the estate! I was politely told that anything I wanted could be purchased at auction and that since I had nothing in writing, my word was useless. I did manage to convince this fellow to allow me to remove a couple items that were legitimately mine prior to the sale. Of course I was totally pissed off, I had full intentions of helping the family catalog and establish values on many of the items. So, my offer of assistance was put aside in favour of going to the auction as suggested... Up until this point I was willing to even advertise and help sell off items to collectors because of the connections I have here and elsewhere in the militaria hobby. To make a long story short, I walked away from the auction with thousands of dollars in merchandise purchased for a pittance, all due to the ignorance of the family and their stubborn and mistrusting attitude. The point of the matter is, I had offered a great deal more in cash on many of the items I ended up with anyhow for a lot less... I am sure many, many collectors got a steal that day on stuff, when afterall, the family would have greatly benefitted from private sales and / or some common sense. My word of advice to all, put it on paper no matter how uncomfortable it is. The days of gentlemans agreements are long gone. In this case, greed of the executor and expediance in disposal of the estate outweighed any level headed thinking. I know my friend would have been ashamed of how his collection was handled, as well as the other assets of his life. Thankfully there were many collector types there that day to save much from the scrap heap. I still shake my head when I think of the thousands lost at auction though. I am sure many of the MLUers out there know who I am speaking of...
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV 1957 Triumph TRW 500cc RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers Last edited by chris vickery; 12-01-08 at 20:47.
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#16
13-01-08, 01:04
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interesting
yes you do wonder what is going to happen to all whatever I've got what have I got.
Max I suppose I am fortunate our own children have already picked out what they want and a couple of nephews are keen to have some as well and it is best to talk about his whilst you can so the family can have an input into what happens to these treasured possessions. Since Keefy is Emma's adopted uncle he would be a responsible person to leave in charge wouldn't he.  
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#17
13-01-08, 01:25
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Re: interesting
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#18
13-01-08, 02:30
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I confess
Motivated by this discussion, I spent today in the toy room taking pictures of my stuff with the intent of producing the illustrated list my wife will need to dispose of it if I drop (or she drops something on me). It unfortunately degenerated into a nostalgic re-acquaintance with old iron, wood and canvas friends. Ah well, back at it with more resolve tomorrow....
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#19
13-01-08, 05:39
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Responsible
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__________________
Film maker 42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains 42 FGT No9 (Aust) 42 F15 Keith Webb Macleod, Victoria Australia Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
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#20
13-01-08, 09:06
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dreams
Yes I can verify Max is like that with his stuff, going to make a list he always gets side tracked and I often find him just sitting in his shed going over old times, with no one but himself he must be a good talker. Thankfully the family are interested in Max's stuff so there won't be too much for me to dispose of, especially when you start counting up the adopted uncles Emma has at the moment.
Kathy
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#21
13-01-08, 09:14
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Re: dreams
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#22
06-02-08, 01:48
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I have passed the torch...
 Well group ,after 13 years of providing manuals to the world of Rusty old Truckers,I have passed the torch to the new Mr.Manual.... The new Mr. Manual is Joel Bellerose from the Ottawa area and he will be providing the world with the same high quality reprints that you are use to get from me.. The professional print shop that did my manuals will be working with Joel and I'm excited about the new product Joel brings to the craft... Most of the Jeep manuals,Canadian contracts, maintenance and parts... Most of the M series Canadian,Including the elusive M 135 Operations manual with a full blue print of the M 135 wiring.. A whole new section of fast moving parts from the late 30's through to the 60's..carbs,springs,wheels..hardware ,brakes,gears and bearings with lots of cross reference material available.. and too many new manuals to list..at least 150 new additions Plus++==+++ Dana will be updating the website tomorrow but the URL will remain the same so the links won't change. Instead of e-mailing me the new Mr.Manual can be contacted at mrmanual(AT)yahoo.com Easy to remember..!! I am greatfull for your past support and look forward to seeing you all at the various meets and gather ups///starting with Gracies on the 16th. Once again contact Joel for all your manual needs ,as it will be a while before he can get all the new manuals into the new format. mrmanual(at)yahoo.com
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk: Last edited by Alex Blair (RIP); 06-02-08 at 19:22.
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#23
06-02-08, 02:30
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Good on ya Alex.
You have got a newbie in to the hobby involved with something that is so important to the rest of us wrench turners, namely the manuals and printed matter that helps us tear apart and re-assemble these old beasts. Good luck and many thanks, Joel! 
__________________
3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV 1957 Triumph TRW 500cc RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers
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#24
06-02-08, 03:20
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Yep Joel is 23 years old.. and really into the manuals bigtime..very interested on carrying the torch and will be around a long time ,hopefully with the manuals to provide technical manuals for all of us..A fine young man and will be at Gracies on the 16th to meet y'all..are you going to make it up for the thrash..??  (Missing smilies)
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk:
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#25
11-02-08, 17:25
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 I hadn't contemplated my own mortality until a diagnosis of malignant Melanoma (does rain cause cancer?!?!) last year sharpened my mind wonderfully on that possibility. I have a decent collection of WW II Canadian militaria and would hate to see it auctioned off to those who feed off the dead, that is, people who scour the obituaries looking for estate sales to ensure that if anything of value is undersold, they are the ones who get it. Lamentably, none of my girls nor my step-son are interested in my collection and there currently is no fourth generation in my blood line. So I plan to enjoy reenacting and displaying my stuff until such time as I am physically incapable to continue. At that point, if I have no interested grand-spawn, I will donate my Engineer items to the CME museum in Gagetown and the rest of my by then well catalogued collection will be put up for sale on ebay. Why ebay, you ask? Because if you look at the prices paid for items on ebay these days, you know the winning bidders will care for and appreciate their purchases. This will also maximize the return for my estate.
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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#26
11-02-08, 17:32
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i could be your step son,
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44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw 44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR 41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C 42 6LB GUN and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
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#27
11-02-08, 17:37
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#28
11-02-08, 18:01
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__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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#29
11-02-08, 19:38
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Engineer Museum - Chilliwack
I did some time at CFSME early 90s and did have the opportunity to spend time in the museum, mainly in preparation for the base's 60th anniversary. Yes, there was a lot of interesting stuff there, both inside and outside. The Google Maps satellite photos show a very different base from what I remember, no H huts, no gas hut (what training base is complete without one?), many of the admin and mess buildings also gone.
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#30
12-02-08, 00:19
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I was last there in 2001. The mess hall and H blocks were gone as well as the buildings in the training area down near the river. The "Blue Whale" is still there and DND is keeping a very small ASU (Area Support Unit) based there, mainly to prevent any Indian Bands from claiming the land. Canada Customs also uses an area for impounded vehicles there. My unit, the 192nd Airfield Engineers were allowed to move 4 small buildings and 2 mobile units to our base located just off Taxiway Delta at Abbotsford International Airport.
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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