25 pdr shell base markings

[david moore]

Wonder if anyone can interpret the various markings on the two 25 pdr shell cases that I have. These were recovered by my father in January 1946 after the very large ammo explosion that took place at the Savernake ammo railhead in Savernake Forest, Wiltshire. These shells seem to have been fired - correct? So one wonders why they, as essentially recycle/scrap material were present with the trainload of live ammo? The trains were being loaded from the dump ready for disposal in the English channel.

20220317_144103_HDR.jpg 20220317_144223_HDR.jpg

[tankbarrell]

Top one is Canadian, Robert Mitchell/ Canada. Bottom one is British, Royal Laboratories Birtley. CF means cordite or charge full. Another F is stamped everytime a full charge is used. CR would mean charge reduced but that would not be used on 25 pr, usually used on an HE round in an anti tank gun.
Dates are self explanatory. Primer markings indicate maker and filling station

[david moore]

Thanks for the info Adrian. When you say that a new "F" was added at every refill, that presumably means that refilling was only done back at the munitions plant - and not in the field?

Again I could understand that live (refilled) shells would have been present in the ammo depot stores which, though "exploding" with the rest of the wagon loads, would show an unfired primer? These primers are "fired".

[tankbarrell]

Yes, refilling was not done in the field, cases have to be inspected, annealed and resized before re use.
I agree, the primers are fired, I can't answer your question about why they were there but they might have been near enough to live ammunition to be effected by an explosion or just abandoned at some point.

[CWO (ret) Gilles Aubé]

Hello everyone, Adrian Barrell mentions in his reply that the shell had to be resized.
Does someone know how this was done?
We have about 2 dozen oversize shells that we cannot use with our 3, 25 pdr guns.
Gilles

[rob love]

When I enlarge the first photo, it almost appears as though the primer is pierced and punched outwards, as opposed to the little dimple normally observed on a primer strike. Could the punchout be the result of a fire condition on an unfired primer?

I often will toss unfired but damaged small arms ammunition into the woodstove to make them safe for disposal. In all cases the primer is what pops out of the case. (note: The bullet does not whiz around the room killing everyone like you see in the movies).