Lynx I MkIII purchase

[Alastair Thomas]

I have just bought a Lynx I MkIII from Mike Ebeling. He restored this from a complete wreck many years ago but has not driven it for many years either.
It has the sort of faults that you would expect from long term storage but, other than that, it is in superb condition with many of the ancillaries including the No19 set.
I am new to armour (in fact up until recently, when my brother and I bought a Cab13 LAAT to restore for Normandy75, I had no experience of military vehicles at all) so am at the bottom of a steep learning curve.
I may be able to lay my hands on a parts book and a repro maintenance manual but if anyone out there has a maintenance manual for sale I would be interested.
Standby for a number of naïve questions on this forum.
Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Alastair

Was good meeting you in Normandy, albeit quickly and I enjoyed seeing your newly restored LAAT. And now you’ve bought a Lynx - you have a serous case of The Green Fever. Congrats!

Hanno

[Peter Duggan]

Alastair,
Welcome to the Lynx owners circle. Will be great to see another Lynx come back to life. I would recommend Brian Asbury for your maintenance manual. He provided me with a copy for my Lynx 11. Worth every penny. Do you know the hull number of your Lynx ?
Peter

[maple_leaf_eh]

Welcome (again), and you have my condolences on your recent outbreak of The Green Disease. There is no known cure, except maybe death or divorce.

[Alastair Thomas]

I was in error when I said that the vehicle is a Lynx I MkIII. This was based on the erroneous belief that the 6 stud axle made it so. In fact I have now seen the identification plate on the inside of the driver's escape hatch and it says that it is a Lynx I MkIII* with the number 1920. The number is confirmed in two places: both are on the horizontal armour in front of the crew, one on the left corner and one on the right. The left corner one is preceded by 5-43 making it a May 1943 vehicle (the hyphen is a '1' on its side). The one on the right side is followed by what looks like SSS. Confusingly, below this on the sloping front of the vehicle is 1977 in the same script as the rest of the stampings. I have been unable to find any International Harvester markings. Where would be a good place to look?
The process of getting it back on the road started yesterday. We removed the two fuel tanks and emptied them of stale petrol. Doesn't the smell hang around! There are no drain cocks in these tanks. One of them has signs of rust inside and I am considering un-soldering the outlet pipe so that I can soak the tank in molasses (the molasses process attacks brass).
Unlike one of the posts I have seen, the petrol pump is the usual AC mechanical one seen on all of these flathead engines I have examined to date.
Other points I have noted are:
- the engine cover (not hinged) is incredibly heavy, at least for us grey haired ones
- it has the correct single fan belt arrangement
- I cannot yet see how I take the crab top off the distributor to check the points
- the hatch to the rear of the tub has two hinges unlike the one I have seen on this forum, which has three.
I do not have a wiring diagram yet. Was the vehicle fitted with a single 12v battery with some sort of voltage dropping system for the 6v bits, or did it have two 6v batteries?
Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*

[Alastair Thomas]

Somehow a sentence or two got chopped out of the above post.

The number on the right side is also 1920 but this time followed by SSS.
On the sloping plate below this is 1977. It is in the same script but I do not know what it means.
I have not seen any International Harvester stamps. Where should I look?

Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Alastair Thomas

I have not seen any International Harvester stamps. Where should I look?

Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*

I would think you would find them on a vehicle built by International Harvester; Isn't this a Ford Canada vehicle?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

I would think you would find them on a vehicle built by International Harvester; Isn't this a Ford Canada vehicle?

I believe it is recorded that International built the hulls for the Lynx.

I recall this Lynx appearing at W&P in 1999, freshly restored. It is an ex-Australian one.

[Peter Duggan]

Alastair,

While I never did find mine due to pitting, the IH stamping should be on the RH outer edge of the horizontal glacis plate in front of the drivers position. My Lynx 11 is equipped with two 6V batteries connected in series to provide 12v which is reduced to 6V for the required systems in a voltage divider which is located on the engine side of the firewall.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

Peter

[Alastair Thomas]

Frustratingly the Lynx is stored one hour away from here and at this time of year there are many other commitments. However, I did manage a brief visit yesterday and confirmed that the last tax disk is for 2007. That is not to say that it was driven that year as, in this time of zero tax for historic vehicles, there is no need to formally take a vehicle off the road.
The number I gave above (1920) is the hull number. The vehicle series number is 1924.
I now have in my hands a mint condition spare parts book for the Lynx I MkIII and MkIII*. I shall be reading it avidly as I am in the "getting to know the vehicle" phase. I have already noted that it describes two different petrol pumps: the AC mechanical one I mentioned above, and an electric one. There is no "from chassis number XXX" statement against either but I can see no reason why there should be both. The diagram of the plumbing of the fuel system does not show the electric pump. Can anyone enlighten me please?
Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*

[Lynn Eades]

Some CMPs had both mechanical and electric, If I recall correctly.

[rob love]

Electtric was better to prevent vapour lock, especially in hot conditions. I have both an electric and a mechanical on the lynx at the museum, and it sure saves a lot of cranking. That is one vehicle that can be parked for a year, you turn on the switch, and start it. The combination of 12 volt system and electric fuel pump do the trick.

[Mike Cecil]

Alastair,

The first post image shows an Australian ARN of 123921. A quick check of the register in AWM126:

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws....ge/6967645.JPG

shows:

ARN: 123921
Original engine: 3G92612F
Re-engined 1948 with 3G7712F
Hull Number 1920.

There is no disposal information listed.

All adds to what we know about your vehicle.

RE two fuel pumps: I had a CMP with both the mech and electric pumps, and as Rob said, saved a lot of cranking and overcame the vapour locking. The electric pump was controlled by a switch on the dash - there is a space for the Autopulse switch on the CMP cash panel, but in Australia, it was not used. I think it was a requirement for CMPs supplied to India (?) Hence, the autopulse pump was only activated as needed, not all the time. I also had a flick switch that delivered 6V to the coil just for starting, rather than 4.5 V - made a big difference, too.

Mike

[Alastair Thomas]

Thanks everyone. I can see the advantage of two pumps. I assume that the electric pump was just for the Indian market as was the case with the F60S (if the maintenance manual is anything to go by).

Mike, Mike Ebeling gave full credit to you for furnishing him with the correct ARN and the history of the vehicle. You will see it displayed in the picture above. Thank you.

[Mike Cecil]

That's nice. Can't say I remember providing that, but I get a couple of inquiries a week, so it is easy to lose track. Must have been a while ago, I think.

Regards

Mike

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Alastair,

The first post image shows an Australian ARN of 123921. A quick check of the register in AWM126:

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws....ge/6967645.JPG

shows:

ARN: 123921
Original engine: 3G92612F
Re-engined 1948 with 3G7712F
Hull Number 1920.

There is no disposal information listed.

All adds to what we know about your vehicle.

R

Mike

Hi Mike,
As I recall, this Lynx made its debut at the W&P show at Beltring in 1999. I know this date because two AMVCS club members, Geoff Denniss and Tom Rolfe were over that year and they took great interest in seeing it in Australian markings. As that was 20 years ago, you can be forgiven for not recalling the enquiry!

regards, Richard

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Alastair Thomas

....
I now have in my hands a mint condition spare parts book for the Lynx I MkIII and MkIII*. I shall be reading it avidly as I am in the "getting to know the vehicle" phase.

...

A clean vintage parts book is worth preserving. Suggest you head for the local photocopying shop and have yours scanned and saved as a *.pdf. Then print a couple examples for the workshop. Leave the good one alone, preferably sealed in a bag.

If you received the original from a trusted source, respect their part of the bargain and don't resell pirated copies on ebay or other sites. Likewise, you could be mowing someone else's retirement income side job of selling copies of manuals.

[Andrew Morrison]

Knew of a Lynx in Queensland that I last saw in about 1995. Was almost complete and what would today be called a barn find. Only missing engine and gear box which had been removed by the previous owner who had purchased it at government surplus disposal auction. Was sold on soon after I saw it to someone down south.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Andrew Morrison

Knew of a Lynx in Queensland that I last saw in about 1995. Was almost complete and what would today be called a barn find. Only missing engine and gear box which had been removed by the previous owner who had purchased it at government surplus disposal auction. Was sold on soon after I saw it to someone down south.

That would be this one, Andrew. Now in New Zealand I believe.



Cheers Rick.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Alastair Thomas

I have been unable to find any International Harvester markings. Where would be a good place to look?

Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*

Welcome to the Lynx owners Club, Alistair. There is a good write up about your scoutcar and a lot of photos here.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/vehicles/cmparmour/lynx.html

The IHC stamp should be just forward of the windscreen armour on the flat plate near the right hand edge. It is small, about 12mm. in size.



Cheers Rick.

[Alastair Thomas]

Thanks Rick.
The Lynx looks almost exactly the same now as it did at Beltring in 1999.
It was kept in-doors and has not suffered at all (except for the loss of the Bren gun in a break in).
I am currently re-commissioning it starting with the fuel tanks. These had about two gallons of stale fuel each with the well known nasty smell. I have cleaned them and flushed them out and will shortly be replacing them. The fuel gauge senders do not work. However, there again, my experience of old cars is that the fuel gauge rarely works so I have made a calibrated stick in the time honoured manner.
The next precautionary job will be to similarly check the fuel lines, pump and carburettor.
The engine turns and all gears can be selected. The clutch pedal hydraulics seem to work.
The one job that promises to be major is that the brake pedal drops straight to the floor so it is possible that I may have to have all the cylinders off and check the seals. Mike told me that he had used silicon brake fluid. I know that in some quarters this has a bad reputation but I have used it successfully over a long period in vintage car restoration. Maybe there are different grades of seals. I will report on what I find.
The 19 set will be left until I run across someone who knows them and is willing to have a look.
One tiny job I have completed is to make keys to allow the hatches to be opened from the outside. These are not exciting enough to be worth posting a photograph.
Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*

[Alastair Thomas]

When Mike Ebeling restored this Lynx, Michael Cecil was able to trace its census number using the hull number. Thus it is now dressed with 12391.
Among some pictures Mike gave me there is one of the vehicle as found in a scrap yard. In this you can clearly see the number 12758 neatly stencilled on the fuel tank armour.
Can anyone tell me, please, if this a later census number (one digit short) or nothing of the sort?
Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*

[tankbarrell]

Looks like Budges yard.

[Mike Cecil]

The Australian Lynx registrations which yours (123921) falls within were 123810 to 123980, so that Lynx does not fall within that sequence.
The set of 12758x, presuming it is missing a digit, are all Willys MB jeeps.

The original 12758 falls within a block of numbers issued by the Dept of the Interior, who controlled the registration system at that time, to another Government department (not Army) in 1940/41.

Mike

[motto]

Silicon brake fluid can be a little problematic but works well over a long period if correctly used.
Be aware that the mil spec silicon fluid will not mix with the civilian DOT 5 silicon. They simply seperate out and one sits on top of the other.

David

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

The Australian Lynx registrations which yours (123921) falls within were 123810 to 123980,.....

Mike

My Lynx is the last to be given an ARN. 123980. Hull no. 1726. This is how I found it. All cut up after they blew the diff and couldn't get parts.



Roger Ross helping dig up bits buried under a prickly Hawthorn bush.




Whats on the trailer. You can see the roof complete, wheels, rear diff housing, doors, roof rest, radiator and many other small bits. The windscreen armour had been used as extra weight on a set of disc in 1958 to plough a rough bush block and had fallen off the disc set and was left standing up in the corner of the paddock for more than 50 years.



123980 across the front.



Almost completed. My TA is cleaning up behind me as usual. Thanks Jill.



you can see the progress to date here at MLU: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23906

Cheers Rick

[Alastair Thomas]

Thanks, Mike for clearing that up.

Question to Rick: Regarding the flap/bracket seen in your last photograph, mounted above the escape hatch, I am assuming is the mounting for a sun compass since it is adjustable for level. A sun compass is mentioned in the standard equipment for these vehicles but no mention is made of this bracket. Do you agree? Also, would the sun compass be the standard Cole compass or was it a North American type? The former would be more convenient to me as we have a Cole sun compass our family, (which was used extensively by our Father in explorations of the Egyptian and Libyan deserts).

Regards,
Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*

[lynx42]

Alistair, that is something I am not sure of. I have a Bagnold Sun Compass on my 1940 LRPG WB Chev. Here are photos of the Bagnold and Cole Sun Compasses for those who do not know what we are talking about..

Cole Sun Compass.



Bagnold Sun compass missing it's centre needle.



Instruction sheet for the Bagnold Compass.



The mount on a preserved Lynx.



My mount opened up a bit. My Lynx was on loan to a Museum for a while.



Sorry, I'm not much help but will make some enquiries.

Cheers Rick.

[James Gosling]

Hi Alastair, I have the same bracket on my Lynx and as far as I know it is for the compass. Although by the time my Lynx was built January 45 a sun compass might have lost its use!!! I had the same mount on the Fox as well but not on either Otter.

James

[Alastair Thomas]

Thanks everyone.
The Cole sun compass shown is very different to the one we have (dated 11 January 1940).
I am in the middle of making some Bagnold sun compasses and have been visiting the IWM at Duxford to study/measure/photograph the original. I will post a picture when they are completed.
Alastair
F60S
Lynx I MkIII*