need help w getting spark

[Piper]

A bit of history on our Mk2. It was badly vandalized and all gauges, switches are broken/smashed. The distributor caps are good and we're in the process of redoing the wire ends that attach to the plugs. Today we replaced the 8 spark plugs. We'd like to do is see if the motor will fire and then go from there. With the new battery and fixed starter, the engine turns and we get compression as listed below.
cyl 1 - 30
cyl 2 - 0
cyl 3 - 0
cyl 4 - 85
cyl 5 - 90
cyl 6 - 60
cyl 7 - 0
cyl 8 - 0

Not promising values. The carrier has sat since 1985 outside, unprotected. We did dump about 4 or 5 ounces of diesel into each cylinder a month ago to loosen things up so we're hoping that the pressure will improve. I'm doubtful especially with the 0 cylinders. I'm wondering about a few things.
1. can we simply 'jump start' this carrier as the wiring is so bad? If so, how?
2. are there suggested parts within the distributor that we should automatically replace?
3. are these parts commonly available? (we do have all 3 manuals fyi)
4. we haven't done a leak down test on the cylinders but are there common problems that occur we could look into?

This carrier belongs to our local legion and if we can get it running, even poorly, then we're going to do a fund raising campaign in order to pay for the work needed. We feel that a running carrier will be more attractive to donors.

Any info appreciated.

Cameron

[Rob Beale]

I have the same problem having just done the water pumps. Our carrier has sat unused for about 2 years inside. I got it running but it didn't sound right, so I shorted out the spark plugs one at a time with a big screw driver - many of them made no difference to the running, but some caused it to die.

I'm waiting for the "Team" to look at it. Removal of the Intake manifold gives access to the valve stems and guides.
more later!

Rob
LP2

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Rob Beale

I have the same problem having just done the water pumps. Our carrier has sat unused for about 2 years inside. I got it running but it didn't sound right, so I shorted out the spark plugs one at a time with a big screw driver - many of them made no difference to the running, but some caused it to die.

I'm waiting for the "Team" to look at it. Removal of the Intake manifold gives access to the valve stems and guides.
more later!

Rob
LP2

Rob..
The one's you shorted out and caused the engine to die are working ok..Sometimes the heat of the running engine will loosen up the others..
But pulling the intake manifold off will give you access to the bottoms and you may see that the valve stems are rusted.. and sticking..
The valve springs close the valves so sometimes a good squirt of penetrating oil will free them up ..
Try prying them up off the cam after spraying..The valve spring will put the pressure to on them to close them..It may take some frigging around and some more penetrating oil..Make sure after you get them all freed up..wash everything into the sump with diesel fuel and drain well and wash again with some new engine oil and drain that and then put your new engine oil in that you are going to run with..
Turning the engine over by hand with the plugs out will be good for the valves to loosen them up..

[rob love]

I would agree with Alex about the valves. If you can get the motor to run, the heat might help. But if you run it too long with a stuck valve, you will burn the valve or worse yet the seat. You can free the valves either from the intake, or by removing the head and giving them a little tap each time they don't go down. After doing this a dozen or so times, they will free up. Best bet is to only tap them while the opposite valve of that cylinder has fully risen to the top.

To jump the carrier, run a small jumper wire for power (negative) to the neg terminal of the coil. The positive side of the coil (positive is the ground on these old fords) connects to the points. Is your coil the one right on the distributer, or the one mounted up top of the engine?
You can do this with 12 volts for a short time if you respect that the coil will not be happy in the long term. Otherwise, you will want to reduce the voltage to the coil by either using a 6 volt battery, or else a resister inline to the coil to drop the voltage. The starter will handle 12 volts without a problem.

Check for spark while the engine is turning over. In all likelihood though, you will have to, at a minimum, replace the points. As a temporary fix, you can lightly file them until they are clean.
The points generally aren't found at NAPA or Cdn tire anymore (although NAPA seems to come or go when it comes to some of these vintage parts) . A place like MACs, or any of the Ford vintage supply houses, can fix you up with new points.

If your coil is the one mounted directly to the distributer, for the longterm, look at replacing it with a new one, or installing one of those kits that let you use a newer coil. If it is one of the coils mounted independently over the head, you can still get those through Cdn tire.

Good luck with your motor.

[Ledsel]

Sometimes you can free up the valves through the spark plug hole. But don't get too violent. Tap the valve that you can see with a screw driver, if you can't see the valve it's not far. I've used a bent screw driver and felt for the valve. First take out the plugs and turn over the motor and see witch ones aren't moving and go from there. You may have to repeat this a few times. If you have compression in that many cylinders it may start like that and that will warm it up and loosen the others. If it starts there is no need to rev it up too much as that won't give the stuck valves time to operate. Good luck. That good damp Ontario air is great for sticking valves in the old flatheads. Mine used to sit sometimes for a few years and they were always sticking. Since I brought it out west I haven't had any trouble at all.

[Ledsel]

Send us some photo's. love to see it. I don't remember seeing one in huntsville. Then again I don't remember much.

[Piper]

just got back from pulling the heads on both sides. What was beneath was a lot of carbon, some rust and some valves were really crudded up. I cleaned the head and block, piston heads and the smooth (now) faces of the head and block. Some of the studs came out, others the nuts undid. I'm not 100% sure the reason. Hopefully I'll be able to get them back properly. The gaskets are complete but pretty messed up. I'm looking for new ones right now. I ran the starter and the valves seem to be opening/closing now. I need some sort of tool though to turn the crank by hand so that I can get each valve to move up. Any suggestions? Also, any specific suggestions on gaskets?

TIA

Cameron

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Piper

just got back from pulling the heads on both sides. What was beneath was a lot of carbon, some rust and some valves were really crudded up. I cleaned the head and block, piston heads and the smooth (now) faces of the head and block. Some of the studs came out, others the nuts undid. I'm not 100% sure the reason. Hopefully I'll be able to get them back properly. The gaskets are complete but pretty messed up. I'm looking for new ones right now. I ran the starter and the valves seem to be opening/closing now. I need some sort of tool though to turn the crank by hand so that I can get each valve to move up. Any suggestions? Also, any specific suggestions on gaskets?

TIA

Cameron

There is a hand crank for the carriers..There is a fitting on the end of the crank for the crank to fit into..Basically the crank is a straight rod with a pin through it ..simple to make to fit..There is a covered access port on the front hull ..center...where the crank fits in..shouldn't be much of a chore to crank up a crank for it..

[Piper]

so if I understand you Alex I can measure the ID of the hand crank pulley and create a rod with a pin which is drilled thru the rod like a T. This slips into the crankshaft.

I think we can fashion up something like that.

Cameron

[Stewart Loy]

Cameron,

The friendly folks at Mac's Antique Auto parts in Lockport, NY will have the stuff you need, or you may try the folks at Dennis Carpenter in the deep South.

I heartilly recommend getting a modern cylindrical coil on that flatty. I remember a battery charger melting the repro coil on the distributor for 90 bucks - then I got an adaptor to use the $13 one availible at TSC.

As far as I know only Bob Carriere in Ottawa has valve cover gaskets for your Universal Carrier motor.



Stewart

[Stewart Loy]

Originally Posted by Piper

so if I understand you Alex I can measure the ID of the hand crank pulley and create a rod with a pin which is drilled thru the rod like a T. This slips into the crankshaft.

I think we can fashion up something like that.

Cameron

Cameron,

Here is what they look like, with my scale next to it. This end is pushed into the crankshaft end, then stout men rotate it - be careful - as the Ford motors have been known to spring to life robustly!


Stewart

[Piper]

perfect. I'll fab one of those tomorrow. I also plan on calling Mac's tomorrow and getting some ignition parts. Would mac's not have the head gaskets? If not, how do I get in touch with Bob in Ottawa?

Cameron

[Stewart Loy]

Originally Posted by Piper

perfect. I'll fab one of those tomorrow. I also plan on calling Mac's tomorrow and getting some ignition parts. Would mac's not have the head gaskets? If not, how do I get in touch with Bob in Ottawa?

Cameron

Cameron,

I am pretty sure that Bob only has the valve cover gaskets for the sidevalve Ford engines.

I think he lurks on this site - but he is sleepy now - still hibernating I think. Could one of the Ottawa Rotters poke him with a stick to see if he has come out of his cave yet this year?

I will PM you about that radiator cap - how are you set for a Mk2 dash?



Stewart

[Rob Beale]

Our carrier ran again today after minor surgery. There was one broken valve guide, which showed evidence that it has been like it for a while: (I had a feeling it was only running on 7) and two stuck intake valves.

It will run through town on ANZAC day next week, first time for 3 years.

Hope the Mk II project is progressing, Piper

Rob

[Piper]

Hi Rob

Yep, we're making headway. I just got a full set of gaskets for the UC 2 days ago along with a dizzy adapter plate, wires, 2 dizzy caps, point set and coil. I'm in the process right now of removing the carb and fuel pump. I took the heads off and cleaned the valves, piston tops etc. There was a ton of carbon there and looked like they'd never been cleaned. Messy work. Once the heads were off I sandblasted the outer side of them to clean up years and years of bad paint jobs and then I powder coated them gloss black. Purists of course will tell me that the original look is different but we're not spending any extra $$ on this job unless absolutely necessary. This carrier doesn't belong to us but the local legion. Anyway, I have to pull the intake manifold and clean what's beneath it. I suspect a lot of really gunked up springs and valves. I'm going to do the carb with a new carb kit and am contemplating getting a new fuel pump, the electric kind.

Sooo, I guess you could say we've been busy!

Cameron

[Bob Carriere]

What have you been smoking.....???

We're not Hibernating....... not any more anyways.... we are now enjoying a 4 week period of mud bath.......

What valve cover gaskets am I suppose to have....?

I know I keep loosing things in the barn but I don't know where to begin looking for Furd parts....???

Boob