Transfer cases

David_Hayward (RIP) · #1 18-06-09, 09:42

I think I have made a howler

in my article on the origin of CMPs in VINTAGE ROADSCENE magazine which is about to conclude by the way with part 13.

I need to clarify what differences there were between the C15A/F15A transfer cases and other CMPs please. I found this old thread of mine:

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...=transfer+case

Basically, which chasiss had single-speed and which two-speed cases please? Also I am sure that the 15-cwt 4x4 cases differed from other CMPs?

Keith Webb · #2 18-06-09, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

I think I have made a howler

in my article on the origin of CMPs in VINTAGE ROADSCENE magazine which is about to conclude by the way with part 13.

I need to clarify what differences there were between the C15A/F15A transfer cases and other CMPs please. I found this old thread of mine:

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...=transfer+case

Basicaly, which chasiss had single-speed and which two-speed cases please? Also I am sure that the 15-cwt 4x4 cases differed from other CMPs?

OK here we go for Fords.

Single speed: F15A, F30

Two speed FGT, F60T, F60S, F60L, F60H

Chev was basically the same except there was no 115" wheelbase tractor.

The transfer case in the C60X was different again.

Apart from being single speed these transfer cases lacked the transmission brake.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #3 18-06-09, 12:46

Thanks Mr W! I know that Fords in Windsor eventually got around to producing, probably in their Windsor Axle Plant, transfer cases but I am sure that I am right in saying that initially Fords used Chev (McKinnon Industries) cases? A Chev case will go in a Ford but not the other way round?

Of course the C8A [and the limited-production F8A?] had a single-speed case as well. However, were the 8-cwt to 30-wt cases the same or differed?

Tony Smith · #4 18-06-09, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

I am right in saying that a Chev case will go in a Ford but not the other way round?

Well, strictly speaking, no it's the other way around. The Chev 2-speed transfer cases use a chassis crossmember to mount the gear selector and shift rods, whereas the Ford 2-speed design has the gear selector and shift rods mounted directly onto the case body. If you remove the selector from the side of the Ford case and use the chassis mounted selector, then a Ford case will mount into a Chev. If you mount a Chev case into a ford, although it will physically mount and the driveshafts will all line up, there will be no way to mount the gear selector.

The C8A/C8AX/F8A/C15A/F15A cases are single speed, and AFAIK they are the same dimensionally and internally, and being a single speed do not have the selector bracket issue mentioned above. That said, the case dimensions, driveshaft positions and many internal components are shared with the 2-speed cases. The basic difference is that the single speed cases lack the gear reduction components for low range, most of the other components being equal.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #5 18-06-09, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Well, strictly speaking, no it's the other way around. The Chev 2-speed transfer cases use a chassis crossmember to mount the gear selector and shift rods, whereas the Ford 2-speed design has the gear selector and shift rods mounted directly onto the case body. If you remove the selector from the side of the Ford case and use the chassis mounted selector, then a Ford case will mount into a Chev. If you mount a Chev case into a ford, although it will physically mount and the drive shafts will all line up, there will be no way to mount the gear selector.

The C8A/C8AX/F8A/C15A/F15A cases are single speed, and AFAIK they are the same dimensionally and internally, and being a single speed do not have the selector bracket issue mentioned above. That said, the case dimensions, drive shaft positions and many internal components are shared with the 2-speed cases. The basic difference is that the single speed cases lack the gear reduction components for low range, most of the other components being equal.

Tony is right ..as usual..
Chev used the Eaton two speed axle in their Chev and Maple Leaf trucks and Ford had their own two speed axle going back to the old Model T days when they used a two speed axle(Remember Ruckstel..??)...The only one old enough to remember those would be me and Brian and Barry,,..maybe Boobee..
And I don't know about Brain..the ex Mr Hupp.but Barry for sure..who is three days older than dirt..and almost as good looking as me.

Timken made two speed axles also as did other manufacturers..but Ford and Eaton were the biggies.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #6 18-06-09, 16:55

Thank you

Keith Orpin · #7 18-06-09, 22:48

David/ Keith,
Be careful when considering the C30 & F30 transfer cases. These were fitted with two speed transfer cases on special variants, i.e. Derrick and LAAT versions, certainly on the 11, 12 and 13 cab versions. (I only know this as my 42 LAAT C30 has a 2 speed transfer case, and I know of an F30 LAAT also with a 2 speed transfer case)
Regards
Keith

Keith Webb · #8 18-06-09, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Orpin

David/ Keith,
Be careful when considering the C30 & F30 transfer cases. These were fitted with two speed transfer cases on special variants, i.e. Derrick and LAAT versions, certainly on the 11, 12 and 13 cab versions. (I only know this as my 42 LAAT C30 has a 2 speed transfer case, and I know of an F30 LAAT also with a 2 speed transfer case)
Regards
Keith

You're probably absolutely correct Keith. I was basing my comments on the assumption the F30 was a stretched F15A. Our ambulances were supposed to be on F30 chassis but the data plates say F60S. They do have 16" wheels and the higher ratio diffs. So the defining features of a F30 are 473 steering and smaller steering ends, 16" wheels and no helper springs?

Keith Orpin · #9 19-06-09, 13:50

Keith,
Agree with the steering, 16" wheels, smaller steering knuckles/ ends, but the
helper springs appeared again on the special variants, possible because of their intended use.
Regards
Keith
P.S. I didn't realise until a couple of weeks ago that the air vents on a 13 cab (Ford or Chev) are different here, as compared to yours in Australia.

Keith Webb · #10 19-06-09, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Orpin

Keith,
Agree with the steering, 16" wheels, smaller steering knuckles/ ends, but the
helper springs appeared again on the special variants, possible because of their intended use.
Regards
Keith
P.S. I didn't realise until a couple of weeks ago that the air vents on a 13 cab (Ford or Chev) are different here, as compared to yours in Australia.

It's only the Australian Chevs which are different, and this is one of a host of differences in the Holden-built cabs including such things as floors, windscreen frames and even the frame closing mechanism. The rectangular vent was a standard Holden shape used on many vehicles as were the little diecast locking arms on the lower part of each windscreen frame.

We didn't build round hatches but we did have the magnificent invention of the Sunshine Roof. And you can thank Australian innovation for windscreens which open 90 degrees rather than the 30 degrees of the originals.

Keith Orpin · #11 21-06-09, 20:57

Hi Keith,
I had a certain person(great charater) in Normandy a few weeks ago, pointing out the differences between our CMP's and your Aussie built ones, all very interesting stuff. Tell me, were the Holden built CMP's, built under license from Canada ?. And yes I do like your sunshine roof version !
Regards
Keith

Keith Webb · #12 21-06-09, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Orpin

Hi Keith,
I had a certain person(great charater) in Normandy a few weeks ago, pointing out the differences between our CMP's and your Aussie built ones, all very interesting stuff. Tell me, were the Holden built CMP's, built under license from Canada ?. And yes I do like your sunshine roof version !
Regards
Keith

Hi Keith

Because Holden were a GM subsidiary there would have been no need for a licence. I would simply have been a matter of saving shipping space and the fact they had the capacity for production here. The chassis, engine and running gear were all imported from Canada.
So which great character was showing you? Almost all CMP enthusiasts fit that description! There's even a certain Swiss CMP-er with a lot of knowledge about such things as sunshine roofs.

zemsi · #13 21-06-09, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

There's even a certain Swiss CMP-er with a lot of knowledge about such things as sunshine roofs.

... thank you Keefy, but my knowledge about CMPs and sunshine roofs is rather poor. Still waiting for the "Blitz Bible" to look everything up someone would have to know about CMPs.

Max Hedges · #14 21-06-09, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Orpin

David/ Keith,
Be careful when considering the C30 & F30 transfer cases. These were fitted with two speed transfer cases on special variants, i.e. Derrick and LAAT versions, certainly on the 11, 12 and 13 cab versions. (I only know this as my 42 LAAT C30 has a 2 speed transfer case, and I know of an F30 LAAT also with a 2 speed transfer case)
Regards
Keith

Keith
thats interesting as the Cab11, C30 that we have does have a 2 speed transfer case,so does that mean we have a special variant??
Max

Grant Bowker · #15 22-06-09, 00:36

The C30-03 parts manual makes no mention of a single speed transfer case that I can find.
There are 2 different shift mechanisms listed, both have the linkage to change range. One shift mechanism uses a separate lever to control the PTO with no obvious connection to the lever that controls front wheel drive, range and neutral so it seems that it would have been possible to have the PTO engaged while driving.
There is also reference to transfer cases with and without PTO.
Also at least 2 different cases that use different bearings (and one type of case can be substituted for another if suitable shims are used with the bearings).

T Creighton · #16 22-06-09, 07:15

I had no problem fitting a Chev 2 speed transfer case to my F30.
The shift tower mounting arm on the Ford case has to be removed and bolted to the Chev case. So it would seem that they are interchangeable.
I can see no mention of a single speed transfer case for F30 and above in the illustrated parts manual.

Keith Webb · #17 22-06-09, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Creighton

I had no problem fitting a Chev 2 speed transfer case to my F30.
The shift tower mounting arm on the Ford case has to be removed and bolted to the Chev case. So it would seem that they are interchangeable.
I can see no mention of a single speed transfer case for F30 and above in the illustrated parts manual.

The Chev 2 speed transfer case doesn't have any provision to mount the arm so perhaps you have found a Ford case in a Chev?

T Creighton · #18 22-06-09, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

The Chev 2 speed transfer case doesn't have any provision to mount the arm so perhaps you have found a Ford case in a Chev?

You are correct Keith, I just went out in the frost to have a good look. I thought I had bought a professionally rebuilt Chev box, ( would have preferred a Ford). It looks like a mix and match job. No wonder it was easy to fit.
Cheers,

Keith Webb · #19 22-06-09, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Creighton

You are correct Keith, I just went out in the frost to have a good look. I thought I had bought a professionally rebuilt Chev box, ( would have preferred a Ford). It looks like a mix and match job. No wonder it was easy to fit.
Cheers,

All's well that ends well!

Keith Orpin · #20 22-06-09, 13:38

Keith,
The great charater I am referring too was Nigel Ward. We had several interesting conversations about the differences between Canadian and Australian built CMP's, over a few beers, most evenings.

Max, All I can say is possibly. I guessing that you do not still have the data plates in place, as they would indicate what type of body your C30 would have been fitted with originally.
Regards
Keith