Sixty-seven pattern Jeep progress log

[maple_leaf_eh]

Just for the Halibut, I've decided to keep a running log of the return of M38A1 CDN 3, former Canadian Forces Registration 70-08876 to the streets. The goal has never been to make the jeep a showpiece, but a roadworthy small 4x4 with an attention getting paint job.

A hundred and fifty years ago in the reserves, my unit The Sherbrooke Hussars had a number of as we called them, '67 Pattern Jeeps'. No one used the M series number. We also had two '74 Pattern Jeeps', which were M151 series.

The unit's history has been a sequence of mounts and dismounts. It was locally raised cavalry and infantry for WWI, machine guns in the Depression, then into tanks early in WWII, landing on D-Day afternoon, fighting through to VE Day, repatriating Tank Bomb to the Parade Grounds Park, then demobilization. The Postwar period saw M4 Shermans back again, but 76.2mm postwar models. The tanks were turned into stores in the mid-60's. As a very impressionable boy, I rode in one with my father. The unit reroled for light armoured reconnaissance (which meant Jeeps and 3/4 tons). Just as I was releasing they converted to Cougars, but never had more than a handful either on hand at the armoury or in a pool in Valcartier. Their other vehicles were Iltis'. I'm not sure how to define the role of The Sherbrooke Hussars these days, other than to provide a manpower reserve for overseas deployments.

I learned to drive at age 16 in them, and made many fond memories onboard '67 Pattern Jeeps. Since becoming a father, I have one of those irrational mental images of me and my son riding, smiling, and getting windburnt as we build some rugged outdoorsy experiences together.

Enter the Internet. On a Wednesday in Oct 07 I saw a posting by a fellow who needed to sell his '67 Pattern Jeep fast. She who makes the rules had spoken to him. So after a quick exchange of messages and phone calls, the deal was closed. He was losing money, and I had to drive 6hrs to go get it. Fair enough. By Saturday night I had Jeep in my driveway. Young man was already excited about, 'Dad's Jeep'.

I inhaled slowly through the nose and set 9 or 10 steps to be done in sequence. The desired result is a safe vehicle on the road in serviceable, recce squadron condition. Getting the paperwork and registration was the first step. Making the Jeep look good was the last one. The budget is to spend the purchase price again in parts and services. If something bad appears, that amount will be reevaluated.

Step zero was to contact the local Rusted Old Truckers (aka the Rotters) in Ottawa. The Internet makes this part so easy. Bob works in the same department as my wife, so it is a small world. Alex sold me more manuals than I wanted, but which have answered many questions. The OMVA chapter conveniently had a small sale where I spent all my pocket money and missed out on a few things. The internet of course is a great place to explore and find suppliers. Over the winter a coworker/boss passed me copies of JPMagazine, which puts some of the work ahead into perspective. And, on a free classified listings I found a local fellow parting out a '67 Pattern Jeep. He seems to have some of what I need.

For less than $100, I found a vehicle appraiser (Rupert Phelan in Ottawa) to put a $$ value on the vehicle so the province could get their fair share on the ownership transfer. I bought the used vehicle package from the Ministry of Transport that listed previous owners and liens. After a false start on misinformation, I spent $190 to change the name on the registration and register the Jeep as unfit, meaning it could not be driven. The alternative was to wait until the work was complete and safetied before registering. I didn't want to have the vehicle in the old owner's name and me doing all that work. Step 1 - check.

Step 2 was to get the lights working. The previous owner had installed a mixed pair of commercial 12v batteries. One turned out to be dead, the other serviceable. I stripped the battery compartment, removed and wirebrushed the trays, and repainted them Rustoleum flat black. I bent some 5/16 threaded rod and green garden hose (free salvage, non conductive and flexible) for battery holddowns. In the books, there is a proper holddown frame for the issue batteries. With the electricals working one day the time will come to install a pair of batteries, I'd like to have found a pair of holddown frames by then. Tonight the boy tooted the horn on Dad's Jeep a ceremonial first toot. The lights work all around, except for a missing blackout marker/tail light. Must keep looking.

Step 3 is to get the engine running. That means reading and following the previous owner's fuel lines and connections. More to follow.

[rob love]

When I was younger I used to build M38A1s from the condemned ones out of the scrapyard, and maybe even borrowed the odd part from the PCC lineup out back. Those were the days when you just walked in to the registration/insurance department, told them a story and paid your tax/insurance.

But my last Cdn3 I bought was literally a turn key. I paid the money to the previous owner, drove it up onto the trailer, and took her home. I drive it every warm day to get the mail on the base, and often get compliments on it. I even passed a guy the other day in town who was driving one of those fancy newer Jeeps with the humvee type profile. "I like yours better" he said as he passed.

I too, learned to drive on the military Jeeps. It was the first vehicle I ever drove, around the back field of the McGregor armouries. I have always loved the feeling of a open top jeep. It becomes an extension of your body.

[maple_leaf_eh]

As a test of the theory that an M38A1 can't be too different from a CJ5 I took a windshield base screw around to the dealers. From a physical look see and reading the military parts manuals, it is a Phillips head, flat head, torque grooves underneath, 5/16 - 24 pitch about 3/4" long. The Jeep online parts system only goes back to 1984, and isn't very descriptive. My screws were not at one place, but apparently at another. No, out of luck - ghost in the bookkeeping.

But the old guy behind the counter had 2 well thumbed illustrated parts cross reference manuals. Line drawing across the top of the page, four or six columns wide and about 30 rows high. After a dozen CJ2, CJ3 and CJ5 versions, down near the M715, were the M38 and M38A1. Identify what you need, and order (or at least identify) the commercial part number. Everything from pitman arms to jerry can holders and windshield weatherstripping. This should come in handy for some of the consumables like gaskets, bearings seals and electrical bits I may need to replace. I noted the name, toll free number and address of the company. I'll see if anything comes up in a search ... It may be fruitless because that company's consolation to progress was a TELEX address! Does that network even still exist?

I found screws, nuts and toothed washers for $4.50 at the industrial fastener store on Bentley Ave. Allen heads and not Phillips, but I don't really need a full set only 2 replacements. One side will look a little mismatched, and I have some modern spares.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Today I stopped by Frisby Tire on Industrial Ave, Ottawa and asked about Jeep tires. Yes, said the counter man at Frisby Tire and pulled out a Firestone Antique and Specialty tire pamphlet. Skinny Model T Fords, classic 50's convertibles, fancy motorcycles tires, etc. Sounds pricey already. Flip flip flip and there they were, a choice of NDT or NDCC Jeep tires! He called an order desk, and says each will be $150 to $175, plus $40 per order for shipping. (I couldn't remember the exact dimensions off the top of my head.) I gulped at the thought of no less than $750 for 5 tires, but remembered buying new rubber for the family daily driver and it was $600 for very ordinary tires. He said they were going to put in a big order because the prices will go up 6% at the end of the month.

Unless someone talks me out of it, next week I'll roll an oxidized, cracked-sidewall 38yr old Jeep tire through their front door and place an order for 5 new ones. Anyone else want in?

[Jon Skagfeld]

Small world, eh?

The Lorne Scots had an M38 w/CFR 70-88888...not unnaturally nick-named "Crazy Eights".

[maple_leaf_eh]

A certain well-known fellow in the scale modelling community, known as JP, who seems to know a lot about that CFR.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Here's a photo of mine. I haven't started work on it yet but I hope to find some time soon. Thanks to Boobie it is currently stored at Chateau Carriere.
CFR number is 70-07824, manufactured in November 1967. (Edit CFR is actually 67-07800)

[rob love]

You can do a lot better than that on the tires if you bring them across from the US yourself. Wallace Wade or Coker tire will sell you Firestone NDTs for under $100 each. If you can get down to the US to either a UPS store or to a Border parcel service, the shipping from either isn't that terrible.

If you ever made it to a MVPA convention, Wallace Wade brings them by the stack to the convention, and charges his catalog price on them. They were about $80 each just a year or two ago.

Are you sure about that CFR 70-88888? More likely it would have been 70 (or 71) -08888. The M38A1Cdn3 ran from CFR 08500 or thereabouts and ran just across the 09000 numbers.

Servicepub
I see your Jeep used to be fitted with the GPMG mount. There are still a few of these mounts left at the local scrapyard if you feel the need to have a M1919 with you. There are some of the wire cutter bars as well, but they are not economically feasable to ship.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by servicepub

Thanks to Boobie it is currently stored at Chateau Carriere.

Gee, it'll be a bare frame next time you see it, Clive... oh well...

[maple_leaf_eh]

What is that object behind the driver's seat back? An upright fire extinguisher mount maybe? The common service mount was a cage affair on the dash, maybe between the seats or on the transmission hump, and infrequently anywhere in the back.

It that is a loose piece of Boob's junk sitting there so it is off the ground, never mind.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

What is that object behind the driver's seat back? An upright fire extinguisher mount maybe? The common service mount was a cage affair on the dash, maybe between the seats or on the transmission hump, and infrequently anywhere in the back.

Good eyes. It is indeed a fire extinguisher bracket. There is another on the dash itself.

As to the GPMG mount, I don't think that I will invest in one at this time.

[Gunner]

Hi Clive/Terry:

The details are not great in the photo but I suspect from the profile that the thingie behind the driver's seat in Clive's jeep is in fact a decontamination bottle bracket. These became all the rage for a while when some keen staff officer in NDHQ pushed hard to have every vehicle and trailer fitted with at least one bottle.

Cheers! Mike

[Jon Skagfeld]

Yeah...08888 sounds more like it. JP=Jim Price?

[maple_leaf_eh]

JP Morgan is a now retired Reservist from that unit. I think he claims to have that plate in his garage ... but that might be the cough medicine talking.

[rob love]

The only reason that the CFR could be out of series like that is if a new CFR was assigned. When a license plate was lost or stolen, the CFR was supposed to be replaced with a new one. The new number would be whatever CFR was due to be issued next from the puzzle palaces higher up. Of course, this caused a great deal of confusion on the mechanic side of the world, and I am sure it likely caused confusion on the logistics side as well.

Our tool cribs used to have the blank plates, the numbers, and the little maple leafs, so we just made replacement plates of the original CFR number,and nobody higher up ever had to know.

Clive, your number also appears to be a bit out. If your truck is a Cdn2 (as the hubcaps on the back axle indicate), and the CFR is 07824, then it should have been preceded by either a 67 or a 68.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

Clive, your number also appears to be a bit out. If your truck is a Cdn2 (as the hubcaps on the back axle indicate), and the CFR is 07824, then it should have been preceded by either a 67 or a 68.

Rob,
I should not have included the pre-fix numbers. My M38A1 has adhesive numbers on the dash (printed over with at least three coats of paint) but does not include the prefix. and my use of the "70-" was an assumption.
As the date of manufacture was Nov 1967 can I assume (there I go again) that the CFR should be 67 - xxxxxx?
I may be able to source a pair of DND plates but can anyone tell me where to source the numbers?

[rob love]

In all likelihood the prefix on yours will be 67, but being so close to the end of the year it may also be 68. Somewhere in my mess of papers I think I have some of the old Crown Assets sales sheets which might give a breaking point for the 67/68 prefix. I believe the prefix had more to do with when the vehicle was taken in to service than the year it was built. I had seen commercial vehicles with the next year prefix assigned to them; not often but it did exist.

I have seen numbers very similar to that used on the plates available at various hardware stores.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Thanks to BB3 I had a chance to see my M38A1 in detail. The CFR number I previously quoted is on the windshield frame, however, this is a replacement and the jeep's actual CFR is 67-07800. These numbers can be seen on the rigth side sill.
Jeep is scheduled to go to Don Dingwall's for some work.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by servicepub

Thanks to BB3 I had a chance to see my M38A1 in detail. The CFR number I previously quoted is on the windshield frame, however, this is a replacement and the jeep's actual CFR is 67-07800. These numbers can be seen on the rigth side sill.
Jeep is scheduled to go to Don Dingwall's for some work.

I took a few "before" pics on Sunday morning, will post them in the next day or so...

Goodon'ya ref Don! He'll do a great job.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

What is that object behind the driver's seat back? An upright fire extinguisher mount maybe? The common service mount was a cage affair on the dash, maybe between the seats or on the transmission hump, and infrequently anywhere in the back.

It that is a loose piece of Boob's junk sitting there so it is off the ground, never mind.

As was mentioned by Mike, the bracket was for the decam bottle. I just picked a few up the other week. Here is what they look like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...nfield0006.jpg

[servicepub (RIP)]

Rob,
Can you set one aside for me? I would take the one without bracket.
Cheers
Clive

[rob love]

I sure can Clive. I picked up a spare or two.

[maple_leaf_eh]

After a summer under tarps, the Jeep has been moved under cover. The weather is changing, the light goes out earlier, and the next step just a bit too much for me to tackle kneeling on a gravel driveway.

So, I built two more arches out of rough 1x6 boards and extended my 'Montreal Driveway Shelter' about 8 feet. I lashed a matching white tarp to the back end of the existing roof. Since I'd gathered a number of big Corplast election signs over the past while, I laid them as flooring and pushed the Jeep inside. I'll rig up some halogen worklamps, an electrical extension cord. I am quite pleased with myself.

Who in Ottawa can help me troubleshoot my fuel supply and get the engine turning over? Donuts and coffee , a mostly full downstairs beer fridge , outdoor smoking area ...

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

...Who in Ottawa can help me troubleshoot my fuel supply and get the engine turning over? Donuts and coffee , a mostly full downstairs beer fridge , outdoor smoking area ...

Without reading all of the details already posted, I have a few questions:
Did you pull the tank and clean it out?
New lines and filter?
Is the fuel pump OK?

There are more than a few jeep experts kicking around the local area - I am sure they can be lured out of the woods with the beer enticement. In any case, the Rotters can help with the beer fridge thing!

Good luck.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

In any case, the Rotters can help with the beer fridge thing!

Not to hijack the thread but is it not time for the Rotters to gather for a ogle-fest chez Gracie's?

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by servicepub

Not to hijack the thread but is it not time for the Rotters to gather for a ogle-fest chez Gracie's?

Clive..
Entertainment chairman Rob can get something organized,I'm sure...
Call a parade..
I'm in..

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by RHClarke

Without reading all of the details already posted, I have a few questions:

Did you pull the tank and clean it out?
New lines and filter?
Is the fuel pump OK?

These are the Apprentice Motor Mechanic questions I need. I'll report back.

The sender unit on the tank was removed and replaced once upon a time. Some of the little screws are missing.

The lines have been disconnected and exposed to the air. Other than blowing out the spider eggs, and reconnecting the ends, why replace them?

Hmm, fuel pump? Hafta go read the manual to see whether it is in the tank or in the engine compartment.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

These are the Apprentice Motor Mechanic questions I need. I'll report back.

The sender unit on the tank was removed and replaced once upon a time. Some of the little screws are missing.

The lines have been disconnected and exposed to the air. Other than blowing out the spider eggs, and reconnecting the ends, why replace them?

Hmm, fuel pump? Hafta go read the manual to see whether it is in the tank or in the engine compartment.

Check your filter for deposits. That could be a good indicator of contamination. I would recommend replacing the lines if upon inspection the inside of the tubes produce rust - you will have to find a way of pushing a thread thru the line (suggest blast of air), attach a small but reasonably big enough swab to the line and pull her thru. Look for "crap" - which is anything that should not be there. Chances are there may be varnish from evaporated gas or other particulates that inevitably made it into the fuel tank.

Or, you could use the Hammond method - soak in chemical cleaner and then blast the crap out the lines with a high pressure air hose...do not look in the other end of the line when doing so...and don't ask...

In any case, if you are confident in the condition of your lines, I suggest you carry on and inspect the fuel pump.

[rob love]

Often the fuel pumps will dry out after sitting an extended period of time. The bit of crud in there can cause the one way valves to not work. Sometimes merely priming the pump with a bit of fuel poured down the line will cause it to develop suction again, other times you have top open it up and clean it out.

A major problem with the old M38A1s is that the rather course fuel fiilter built into the tank does not screen out the really fine particulate. These can build up in the fuel pump causing it to not pump, or else get into the needle valve and cause the jeep to flood, especially when it is hot and sitting at a stop sign. An inline fuel filter installed in the short flexline right before the pump will cure that problem.

[maple_leaf_eh]

So knowing my limits, I conceded that my mechanical knowledge is limiting my M38Al's advancement back onto the road. My regular car mechanic has some quiet time during school spring break, and agreed to put the Jeep in the corner of the garage for time to time work. He has a short list of things (all mechanical) to work on.

I refilled the tires after a long winter, and with a long-shaft jack lifted it off the jackstands. Then I mounted the A-frame tow bar to the bumper. The family minivan, otherwise known as the prime mover, was backed down the driveway until the remnant snowbanks stopped me. Using the van as an anchor, with chain, tow straps, and an 8-yr old boy on the handwinch, the Jeep was slowly extricated from the Montreal Driveway Shelter. The boy was quite excited to help.

Out in the bright sunshine, several things happened. The 2 batteries held their charge perfectly over the winter. The accumulated old and new parts were sorted out into big plastic tubs. Humidity can accumulate in sealed parts bags left outside. The rust scale and tree leaves were vacuumed out. I replaced the windshield washer pump with one from the OMVA sale in Kanata 18mos ago. I diagnosed that the choke cable is verily uncooperative and permanently seized. Fortunately the fording handle and its cable are the same on the other side of the firewall. But the best thing was meeting a fellow who literally skipped across the front snowbank and introduced himself saying he had a Jeep like this too! And he lives in the neighbourhood!

For the collective wisdom - the fording crankcase vent lever on the fuel pump, is the normal operating location up or down? The damper on the air intake is wired off.

For Alex Blair - standby for "Jeff" to call wanting to buy ordnance parts and shop manuals for the M38A1. $$ $$ $$

For Clive - the sap is running!