1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless restoration

cletrac (RIP) · #1 08-11-06, 03:15

I put the C8 in the shop the other day and got started dismantling her. The truck has very few miles on it and shows no signs of wear. It looks like most of it will just need cleaning up etc. The spring bushings, king pins and steering knuckles are all tight. The head was off the motor for 30 plus years so I found one that just needs a ring job and possibly a few shims removed.
The main differences I've seen between the military and civvy motors are:
The crank pulley is wider on the military engine and the bolt holes for pulling the hub are 7/16 instead of 3/8.
The military uses a roller pilot bearing where the civvy uses a bushing.
The military engine uses positive crankcase ventilation.
The oil pan is the same as on the civvy 2 ton.
The bell housings are different but the clutch and flywheel are the same.

Mike K · #2 11-11-06, 11:52

The king pins and spring bushes are standard civilian items .
The 216 engines did change quite a bit over the years from 1937 to the early 50's? The flat top pistons and domed pistons had their own particular heads , and it is not a good idea to swap them around . The valve stem length varied too and the seat angle on the later ones was 45 I think . After1939 the push rods were shorter I think . When you strip a 216 motor , it's best to keep all the bits together and not try to swap around parts from a later/earlier motor . You can get into problems if you do try to use wrong parts .

Mike

cletrac (RIP) · #3 13-11-06, 00:13

I pulled the brakes and rear end apart and didn't have any unpleasant surprises. The wheel cylinders just need rebuild kits but the master cylinder is fairly pitted. It might have to be bored out and have a sleeve installed. I checked out a 2 ton master cylinder but they have an extra hole for the brake light switch. It would work but isn't quite the same so I'll keep the army version. The brake drums have a few grooves worn in them but won't need turning. None of the shoes were down to metal.
The rear end is in pristine condition but I'm going to check out a 54 Chev automatic car rear end with 3.55 ratio. It looks like the gears will fit. On an old Chev truck website they list 3.55 gears for the 40s half tons so that's probably where they came from.
The king pins and steering are really tight as are the spring bushings. The tie rod is quite kinked up so a little press work is in order. None of the shocks are siezed and they all seem to work.
This truck has overload springs but they aren't listed in the parts manual. Did some have them installed originally or not? It looks like a factory installation.
Any of the old CMPs I've come across in Sask seem to have very little wear on them. It's my guess that with no windows or heater there'd be a limited amount of time that a farmer would want to use them.

Mike K · #4 13-11-06, 12:17

David ,

One reason the 8 cwt's were put off the road in the 1950's was a lack of replacement tyres . 9.00 X 13 was a odd size and after the original wartime tyres gave out , some trucks were just stored away and didn't see much use .

I have here a registration paper for a Ford F8 that was registered in Quebec in the 1950's , I'll try to scan it and post it here .

Let us know how the axle conversion goes .

cletrac (RIP) · #5 20-11-06, 03:23

I picked up a 46 Chevy 1/2 ton chassis today and got comparing parts. I posted some comparison pics on the CMP chassis thread. From the crossmember at the u-joint to the front of the frame the frames are the same. All the springs and shocks and brakes are interchangeable but the front hubs are special military items. The C8 uses the heavier steering components off the 2 ton trucks, so the tie rod won't work for me, so I took the one off the Maple Leaf 2 ton. It will work and is in excellent shape. The rubber seals on the steering knuckles are even reusable.
I also got the rear end out of the 54 Chev but they're totally different (built lighter) so I'll use the gear set out of the half ton instead. I'm going to check the gear ratio tomorrow.

cletrac (RIP) · #6 25-02-07, 01:05

I started sandblasting the chassis today. It's got one layer of khaki paint and no primer under it so it comes off pretty easily. As I was blasting I got to wondering if the paint would contain lead or not. There's probably a good chance that it does so I'll make sure I'm wearing my dust mask. I haven't come across any surprises yet with cracks or the like.
That 46 half ton rear end is 4.11 ratio and the centre section is a direct bolt in. They claim you need a special puller to get the pinion gear out of the driveshaft housing but I just held it with the front end pointing up and dropped it about a foot onto the cement floor a couple of times and inertia did its bit and out it came. Innovation comes in handy at times.
I need a couple of tires but I've got a line on some 9.50x13 aircraft tires that will work. They're pretty well the same profile but there's no tread but I doubt that I'll be driving it under adverse conditions anyway. A person could cut some grooves in them if necessary as there's lots of rubber thickness.

Mike K · #7 25-02-07, 10:11

david,

During the cleaning of parts on My C8 , I found a preserved ink stamp of a steel maker , I think it was 'USS steelworks' in Detroit or similar . It was on the short curved panel next to the grill .

Interesting that they were using U.S. made sheet steel for the panels .

The thermostat was dated too , Jan. 40 from memory .

A soldier, VX 65738 had scratched his name into the instrument panel . I traced him and wrote a letter . He served in the 2/4th armoured regiment as a gunner on Matilda tanks . He was wounded on Bouganville in the Solomons . He unfortunately didn't remember the C8 .... He said at wars end his unit was posted to Bandiana to await demob , where he probably did the vandalism as he called it .

cletrac (RIP) · #8 06-03-07, 03:22

Here's the blasted chassis ready for some paint.

cletrac (RIP) · #9 06-03-07, 03:35

Here it is after three coats of light stone paint. I used self priming corrosion resistant low lustre General enamel.
Note the overload springs. Were these common on 8 cwts? They were painted khaki before but they don't look like they were installed at the factory. Where the front stopper is bolted to the frame it's over the square washers on the shock absorber bolts. The other side is the same way. I don't think the factory would have done it that way.
I've used the blasting sand over about a half dozen times but it's getting so dusty now that it's hard to see what I'm doing. I guess it's time to blast some parts outside and let the sand go. It's good for the driveway anyway.

Mike K · #10 06-03-07, 12:27

david

As far as I know , the over ride springs are a post war add on by a civilian ? They are not mentioned in the parts book anywhere .

Its looking great . I sandblasted my chassis as you are doing . Make sure you use good hearing protection . The loud air rushing noise ( white noise cos its full of harmonics ) , is extremely damaging to your ears , you can end up with tinitus, a permanent ailment, for the rest of your life , no cure known for it .

The rubber spring stop blocks on the chassis, I found nos ones years ago at Hancock spares in Camberwell , where Keith Webb worked . I noticed they don't line up too .... weird isn't it .

Mike

cletrac (RIP) · #11 14-03-07, 01:06

I've got to start putting some of this stuff back together so I'll have a little more room in the shop. You can see in the picture that there's not much empty floor space left. I'm going to bolt the arches and associated pieces on tomorrow and then blast the floor and cab back. I made some new oak body mount pieces. That's them hanging on the left end of the engine picker.
Those overload springs looked like they were installed by the army as they were khaki coluor. I'm wondering if they came out with them when the cab 12s were used as GS vehicles to handle a little more weight. The spring stoppers that clamp onto the frame seem to be purpose built for the 8 cwts since the half tons and three quater ton civvy units have a narrower frame rail where they clamp to and the bigger trucks have a different looking stopper. Those rubber bumpers are supposed to hit the rear end .

cletrac (RIP) · #12 30-03-07, 04:53

I've got a few more bits bolted in place and some freshly painted parts waiting their turn. I started sandblasting the box today and there's just a few small dints here and there. My little blaster will take a few days to do the box. I've got the brake cylinders at a machine shop for a precision hone job so it'll be a few days before I get to put the brakes and hubs together.

Mike K · #13 30-03-07, 15:06

I had all the brake cyls sleeved in stainless steel for a reasonable cost .

Found any tyres yet ?

Mike

cletrac (RIP) · #14 23-05-07, 05:02

We got a little wet weather so I started to put the old 216 back together. I'd forgotten how frigging a job it is to shim all the bearings to the proper clearances on these old babbit pounders. I set the main bearings at 2 thousanths and the rods will be 3. The last motor I did this with was a Ford Model T about 20 years ago.
This engine has very little wear on it anywhere so I'll get away with new rings and gaskets and a valve grind plus the usual tune-up stuff.
There's an outfit in Winnipeg that has 9.50x13 aircraft tires for $95 each so I might go with them. The military tires are all but impossible to find.
I managed to get the inside of the box sandblasted before I went seeding but the outside remains to be done. At least now that summer's here the natural sand won't be frozen into a big lump so I won't have to be purchasing the commercial stuff. At $13 for 80 pounds it adds up pretty fast.

Bob Carriere · #15 23-05-07, 22:22

.....going to cash your empty beer bottles and buy yourself an engine stand......??

Sorry could not resist.

BooB

cletrac (RIP) · #16 03-04-09, 02:23

I finally got back to working on the C8. I managed to dig up 5 seats for the Cab 11 so that will outfit it. The early Cab 11 seats don't fold so won't work here but that's OK since I need the two that I have for my C15 anyway. The Cab 13 seats have a different slide mechanism so won't work either. If you had to you could put the Cab 11 slides on a Cab 13 seat and that would work but if you had the slides you'd have the seat too.
I've got quite a few pieces ready for paint and I also installed the aircraft tires on the front axle. They look the part except for the tread but when there's no other option I'll put up with it. Tubes with the right valve stems were hard to find and so are the springs for the back of the seats. I have quite a few seat springs that broke where they hook on the ring but I'll just bend the next coil out for the hook and that'll work.

Mike K · #17 04-04-09, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by cletrac

We got a little wet weather so I started to put the old 216 back together. I'd forgotten how frigging a job it is to shim all the bearings to the proper clearances on these old babbit pounders. I set the main bearings at 2 thousanths and the rods will be 3. The last motor I did this with was a Ford Model T about 20 years ago.
This engine has very little wear on it anywhere so I'll get away with new rings and gaskets and a valve grind plus the usual tune-up stuff.
There's an outfit in Winnipeg that has 9.50x13 aircraft tires for $95 each so I might go with them. The military tires are all but impossible to find.
I managed to get the inside of the box sandblasted before I went seeding but the outside remains to be done. At least now that summer's here the natural sand won't be frozen into a big lump so I won't have to be purchasing the commercial stuff. At $13 for 80 pounds it adds up pretty fast.

David ,

When assembling your 216, carefully check the piston pin bushes for any clearance, they are known to cause problems , at least with the cast iron pistons. You'll hear knocking sounds at idle if they are worn. My C8 has this problem on one piston.
Mike

Keith Webb · #18 04-04-09, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

David ,

When assembling your 216, carefully check the piston pin bushes for any clearance, they are known to cause problems , at least with the cast iron pistons. You'll hear knocking sounds at idle if they are worn. My C8 has this problem on one piston.
Mike

That's just given me an 'AHAH!' moment... about 30 or more years ago I had our Chev 216 rebuilt by a company in Brunswick I think it was... anyway it was when I was working for Hughes Auto Spares which is where things like the NOS distributor came from. It always had a light knocking in it, even though everything else seemed to be good... the crankshaft and big ends were done so it seems the noise may just be due to the gudgeon pin bushes. We fitted the cast iron pistons as I was able to get them NOS at the time.

Bob McNeill · #19 05-04-09, 12:40

had a similar problem, a slight knock cold, lost compression during a long hot pull but the Chev made it home. Discovered bush came loose in piston,worked out into the cyl wall, big groove up wall. All pistons had cracks into gudgeon area, motor had done 25,000 mls, std bore, no shims left on rods but crank 0.005 wear. will rebuild after sleeving.

cletrac (RIP) · #20 21-11-09, 01:17

I did a bunch more blasting and painted these parts. I found a hood setup after a lot of looking. It came from Ontario. I'm going to try to finish the sandblasting before it gets too cold out. I like to do that job in the fall since I can wear a Ski-Doo suit for protection and not have a melt down.
For those who keep asking how much paint you need for a truck, these parts took a gallon for one coat. With stuff like the seats you waste way more than you use, but the shop floor gets a fresh look.

Alex van de Wetering · #21 29-11-09, 21:33

Dave,

good to see you have continued on the C8 again! Am I correct in assuming your C8 has the cowl vents? Could you post a close up of the tube and valve which sits behind the vents?

Alex