Water pump pulley question

Nigel Watson · #1 16-11-12, 19:21

Whilst driving to collect for Remembrance Day last week, my carrier started overheating. It made the driver's compartment nice and warm! I had topped water up and knew there were no leaks so I immediately thought I had broken both fan belts. Pulling over I checked, yes they were off, but no they weren't broken. Then I noticed a water pump pulley lying on the engine bearer. Checked the spindle and it turned fine, no leaks etc. The thing is there is no visible evidence of how it is fixed on. No weld marks, no keeper pins, just seemed to have been chapped on. Does anyone know how they were fixed onto the spindle? Easy fix but want to know how it was originally done.

Thanks

rob love · #2 16-11-12, 20:51

Pressed on. You may get away with re-installing it using a bearing race permanent loctite, but more likely you should rebuild the pump. It all depends on if the wear or out of spec is on the shaft or in the pulley bore.

A kit (new shaft and bearing) is only about $30 from MAC's. http://macsautoparts.com/early-ford-...R3CHL1141868E/

If you are going to re-install the original pulley, you cannot merely tap it back on in place, or you may damage the bearing or shift the bearing and have the seal leak. The pulley must be pressed on to the pulley by pressing on the shaft at the impeller. You could also press the pulley onto the shaft, but you would have to support the shaft at the impeller, rather than pressing the weight onto the housing.

Lynn Eades · #3 16-11-12, 22:27

I pretty much agree with Rob's answer, but I doubt there is much wear on the shaft or in the pulley bore. If they look good (have them measured)
I would loctite them,but first.......
Another aspect to consider is how old the pump is. About 95% of engine failures come from cooling system problems.
All it takes to develop cracks, cook up rings (start burning oil), have pistons gaul (part seize) start burning valves etc. etc. etc., is what has already happened to you.
I'm not saying you've got any of these problems. As your engine is not new, it is somewhat less likely to have developed any of these problems.Time will tell.
Any how, the point is, maybe its time to buy two kits, and do both pumps.
Give your block and radiator a flush out at the same time.

BTW the flathead block has an entirely separate system for each bank, that is only connected by the radiator and fan belts.
That means if it wasn't for the water mixing in the radiator,the water in each bank would never meet.

charlie fitton · #4 17-11-12, 14:39

I'm with both of the boys - rebuild..you can do it in a vice on your workbench.

I had a pump that would occasionally sieze and make all kinds of god-awful noise and then work fine again by the time I got the engine covers off. No leak - no other indicators.

gordon · #5 17-11-12, 15:21

All that flathead design seems to be 'interesting' It's bad enough working on it in a truck - I imagine a Carrier is somewhat less accessible ....

I had single and twin pulleys break while being posted ( back after being rebuilt ) and I'm less that impressed with the design.

Here's a thought then. Offer the pulley back up to the shaft, and see if it is a sliding fit ( or at least not tight enough to stay on - which I assume it isn't )

If it will slide on, drill a 1/8" hole through the bottom of the pulley groove into the bore, then slide the pulley on and just drill though that hole far enough to put a retainer mark on the pump shaft. Pulley off again, tap hole to suitable thread size, insert socket head grub screw, and then Loctite / grub screw the darned thing to the shaft.

Greetings from Falkirk Nigel - I'll give you a wave tomorrow on the way back to Aberdeen

Jack Innes · #6 17-11-12, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

BTW the flathead block has an entirely separate system for each bank, that is only connected by the radiator and fan belts.
That means if it wasn't for the water mixing in the radiator,the water in each bank would never meet.

This can lead to undetected problems if the water circulation stops on the side without the heat sender. That bank of cylinders can become overheated before the temp. indicator shows trouble. The bottom line is not to trust the indicator if you suspect something is not right. Later flatheads had a sender on each side. Worth noting - while they look alike, the dual senders are not the same - the second one is a switch that, on overheating, closes & sends the indicator to the full hot reading.

Lynn Eades · #7 18-11-12, 01:37

Do you mean the single terminal one is a switch? I understand they are wired in series- single teminal to the second sender, and the other terminal of that one goes to the guage.
If that is the case, then are there two types of single terminal ones? a switch type, and a sender type? (a sender type for motors with only one sender)

Jack Innes · #8 18-11-12, 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Do you mean the single terminal one is a switch? I understand they are wired in series- single teminal to the second sender, and the other terminal of that one goes to the guage.
If that is the case, then are there two types of single terminal ones? a switch type, and a sender type? (a sender type for motors with only one sender)

Lynn, You are correct, there are single terminal senders that are either a switch or a rheostat type. The switch type is also used on vehicles with an "idiot light" on the dash. The two senders are actually wired in parallel. Either one will take the power to ground when activated. The rheostat does it progressively while the second sender is either on or off. The two terminal type have one terminal with two mounting points to create a connection to the second sender. The 2 sender system actually carried over on some later Y-block engines. I have it in a US built 54 Ford.

Nigel Watson · #9 19-11-12, 14:59

Knew this was the place to ask the questions. I should write a book about you guys!! Rob thanks for initial explanation. I had wondered if the end of the shaft had been flared after the pulley was on..but no.
The whole unit has just been overhauled so am happy all is ok, touch wood! The shaft is also turning freely with no catching or movement. So a wee chap on with loctite will be tried.

Jack if I fit a temp sender to both sides can one go to the gauge and another to a light (to save having two gauges)? Or should I just put a length of flexible hose from the radiator overflow down the driver's neck? !!!

Thanks again everyone.

Jack Innes · #10 19-11-12, 15:33

Quote:

Jack if I fit a temp sender to both sides can one go to the gauge and another to a light (to save having two gauges)? Or should I just put a length of flexible hose from the radiator overflow down the driver's neck? !!!

Thanks again everyone.

Nigel, The 2 sender set up does not have 2 gauges. The left sender is a rheostat that operates the gauge in the normal way. The right sender is a on/off switch that, on overheating, will send the gauge to the full hot reading which will indicate trouble. In normal operation the right sender remains open & does nothing & the left one tells you the operating temperature of your engine.

Your overflow extension might get a more immediate reaction if the driver sat on it!