Flathead Colour

ajmac · #1 21-05-10, 10:13

What colour were the Flathead V8s painted for war production?
Reading about Mercury V8s I saw reference to these being painted a different colour to Ford units.

tankbarrell · #2 21-05-10, 11:51

The T16s engine was painted Ford Blue, a dark grey blue not unlike the bars on this forum, at least on my monitor! I have (had) a couple of NOS T16 water pump bodies and they were that colour.

RichardT10829 · #3 21-05-10, 13:16

I have seen them in Battleship grey (or a few tints darker) and in Black. Mine will hopefull be done in grey though as i like that

tankbarrell · #4 21-05-10, 14:03

You'll see them in all sorts of colours, very few original though!

Lynn Eades · #5 21-05-10, 14:03

This has been discussed before on this forum, and yes, some years the Merc was a different colour than ford. There is a very informative web site that covers this, but cannot remember the details.

horsa · #6 21-05-10, 18:19

Most of the Ford sites on-line that I've seen don't cover the wartime years since no dealer catalogs were made during that time as civilian vehicle manufacturing was suspended. Some speculate that the postwar colors must have started following the last published pre-war listed color which I don't think is accurate.

The Ford 4-cyclinder used on jeeps was a gray color while that same engine in a Willys was the color of the vehicle body.

For the T-16 V8 engine which is the 24-stud pattern, the color was a very dark rifle green shade. This had been one of the pre-war colors as compared with the postwar blue. We found this color on two T-16 engines and transmissions that were still hooked up inside vehicles. And NOS wartime Ford G166 tagged water pump pulleys and crank shaft pulleys I've had were this color as well. I've also got a pair of NOS heads that color but they are not tagged.

Attached shot is a wartime water pump pulley made in 1944. Doubt this was repainted after the war since the vehicles and parts were all sold as surplus.

Not sure of colors for the 21-stud V8 used on British and Canadian carriers.

tankbarrell · #7 21-05-10, 18:44

That looks dark blue/grey to me! The pump bodies I had were certainly wartime NOS and were definately blue as was the engine that came out of my T16. Different factories? I'll see if I can find a pump body.

horsa · #8 21-05-10, 19:04

There might have been more than one color since the first engines were different than the later Mercury type which was a little more powerful. A few shots are attached of the Mercury pattern engine which matches the same color as the pulley and heads that I have.

The pulley on the other message is darker looking from 65+ years of NOS dirt. One of the engine shots was taken after brushing and wiping it down with oil on rags so it has a brighter and more glossy look with direct sunshine on it. The other shots haven't been cleaned up. You can see how dull it looks in comparison and could pass for a blue/gray shade. When cleaned and oiled, it looked like the more glossy shot of the front of the engine.

martyn · #9 21-05-10, 19:36

most of the v8s ive seen are that great colour rust red lol,
ive seen 2 in dark green think they are recon old stock, and 1 ford grey, and 3 in duck egg green, a friend has a windsor that has only got 16 miles on it came out of pounds yard in the 50s and still has all its packing tape on the engine air filter and inlets will ask what colour that is?

horsa · #10 21-05-10, 19:53

Guess we need to be careful when generalizing colors. Australian carriers seem to have a different shade of rust on their engines when compared with those in North America. Likely they won't match your rust variation in the UK either.

A friend of mine here in the USA will be taking possession of a 1943 dated T-16 with a 46XX serial number later this summer. It never went overseas and so never got any British modifications applied to it. The engine is dead but original to the vehicle so I will post what we find on it in a month or two. I haven't seen it in person yet but the vehicle is still in all original paint so likely the engine is also. It won't tell us anything conclusive but will at least be another thing we can use to see if there is a trend for the T-16s.

RichardT10829 · #11 21-05-10, 21:05

I am just going to throw this out there, but what about Rally X red :-

it is a proven fact that red adds BHP to any engine

this one being my last engine build a full custom 1380cc A series with T3 turbo charger pushing 20psi boost and producing 225 bhp at the crank.... kinda makes ya wonder what they did wrong with the large CC V8's we have in our carriers

Hope i have tickled some of you

Richie

ajmac · #12 06-09-10, 11:25

Did anyone get anywhere with ID of wartime colours? I want to get it right and will be painting my gearbox the correct colour for US production 1943. The box already has a little original paint and looks like a deep blue/green, almost like a hammerite metalic green.... probably post war. Hopefully I can find some original color under the dizzy on the engine.... however I would have thought that both the pre / early war Ford green and late war / post war Ford dark blue would be available 'off the shelf', are they?

RichardT10829 · #13 06-09-10, 11:36

AJ ring martyn up he spent some time on this subjetc, now that he has a queue of folk wanting engines built by him he has had to get the correct schemes etc. worth a call he is only around the corner from you buddy.

Lynn Eades · #14 06-09-10, 13:38

Go to Vanpeltsales.com site, and the colours are there under the general specifications. I dont know how to post a site.

RichardT10829 · #15 06-09-10, 13:44

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/

ajmac · #16 06-09-10, 16:26

I've already been there, nice site with lots of info, however the name of a colour isn't really enough and most US Flathead sites seem to think that 1942-45 didn't exist, I presume becuase people are mainly interested in Car production info which stopped between these dates.

RichardT10829 · #17 06-09-10, 16:27

hahahahaha...then get in touch with Martyn matey he did Nigels engines in correct collours, one for his truck and one for his carrier.

ajmac · #18 18-09-10, 15:48

Spoke to Martyn about it the other day, he has some original UK production V8 parts in the Ford Dark Green, used by Dagenham and Ford US but nothing with the Merc Dark Blue. It would be interesting to discover if ford supplied merc v8s for loyds or ford 85bhp units alone....

horsa · #19 23-09-10, 21:13

Was finally able to dig out a spare pair of T-16 engine heads that I've had in storage down at our ranch in South Texas so that I could shoot photos of them to show the original color. These were NOS but show a little North American shade of rust on areas where the head bolts and water hose go.

I didn't know what I could put beside them to show standard green and blue for comparison. But the postal boxes they are on do have some blue printing which is in the shade range of Ford/Mercury blue. To me the color is almost the same shade as the rifle green used by the Rifle Regiment if that helps.

Either way, it is the same color as the NOS WWII Ford V8 water pump pulley I'd posted closer to the top of the message thread.

ajmac · #20 24-09-10, 02:57

Well Ford Dark Green it is then, I bet we are just scraping the surface of a deep subject, I may well contact the Ford Archive in the US, they have helped me out before. I am interested to know if Ford shipped Merc V8s (like the T16) to the UK or only ever the Ford V8. To be honest I'd rather have a Merc as they have more poke

Lynn Eades · #21 24-09-10, 03:51

I'm betting you make other compromises, and the Merc engine, is an easy one.... You dont have to tell anyone (else) How is anyone going to know?

ajmac · #22 25-09-10, 20:24

But I will.....

Lynn Eades · #23 26-09-10, 02:02

just do it anyway..... Do you want a carrier that struggles to climb over a cow pat, in low gear? (.... at least it would be truly british)

RichardT10829 · #24 26-09-10, 03:47

yeah go for it... mine has the inlets flowed, i have also ported out the exhausts and had the heads machined... going to put a blower on her for some extra poke.....

The Bedford Boys · #25 26-09-10, 07:42

Lynn, when do we get to experience the sound of one of your carriers running? Surely you must be close now?

ajmac · #26 26-09-10, 19:02

My biggest issue with getting the correct Flathead is that the US version by 1943 was using 24 head studs, finding one in the UK is rather difficult, I may have to resort to importing a couple from the US. As far as I can determine Dagenham production never took up the 24 stud mods and stayed with 21 studs right up into the 1950s when Flathead production stopped.

eddy8men · #27 26-09-10, 21:42

hi alastair

i wouldn't go to the expense of importing a 24 stud engine just yet, if you look long enough one will turn up and even if it didn't you could put a 21 stud flathead in then change it at a later date if the 24 stud comes up.

eddy

shaun · #28 27-09-10, 00:42

You should try Beltcher Engineering, these are the best and main suppliers of Ford V8 in the UK 21 and 24 stud. they usually have rebuilt engines in stock . They are based on the Norfolk/Suffolk boarder near Diss.
http://www.belcherengineering.com/index.php

Aidan · #29 27-09-10, 02:45

Green Colour, 21 stud 1936 flathead

Aidan

ajmac · #30 27-09-10, 04:43

Eddy, You're right, I have my eye on a 1947 21 stud Dagenham V8 at the moment.... we will see what comes off.