Strange captured vehicle

[Eduard Sorokin]

Dear colleagues !

What is it ? Your opinions ? Click on image to enlarge.
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Deu-Beute-Fa...d=232479227049

[Phil Waterman]

Looks to be Pattern 12 Ford Water Truck probably f60 134 inch wheel base, though from the picture can not tell if the tank unit is Allied.

Cheers Phil

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I cannot find any evidence of F60S lorries being sent to Egypt...in fact there were no F60S chassis ordered by the British Ministry of Supply until 1943ish. Could it in fact be a F30 ordered under S/M 2003 which as we know were delivered direct to Alexandria?

[Phil Waterman]

Hi David

That is certainly interesting delivery and shipping data you have access to that dissevers a thread of its own I'd love to know what other little gems of information your source may have, but that's a different topic.

Back to identifying the photo, your comment made me reexamine the photo for points which would clarify F30 vs F60, and on closer examination I did note that the truck has the smaller brake drums as used on F30s in the photo below note the space between drum and rim.

One point of clarification that someone may be able to add is at which point did they shift from the smaller drums as used with 16" rims on the larger trucks. Were the the smaller drums and smaller ball units only used on the C30 and F30

My reason for identifying the subject truck as being the 134 wb vs 101 or 158 wb is the space between end of gas tank and rear tires, to much space for the 101 and not enough for the 158 wb.

Can anyone add any information about the tank plumbing is a water or fuel tank from what can be seen?

Cheers Phil

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The information has been gleaned from years of research, acquired from amongst other places, the Canadian National Archives.

[Keith Webb]

Phil I think the 6" steering ends (along with type 400 steering box) were not introduced until well into cab 13 production. This cab 12 has the smaller type 375 steering box. So the point I'm making is both F60S and F30 had the same steering, but usually the F30 was fitted with 16" rims. Pity there aren't more images.
In any case I'd say it is definitely not a F60L. I've not seen this tank configuration on the back before - perhaps it has been adapted from another vehicle?

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi David

That is certainly interesting delivery and shipping data you have access to that dissevers a thread of its own I'd love to know what other little gems of information your source may have, but that's a different topic.

Back to identifying the photo, your comment made me reexamine the photo for points which would clarify F30 vs F60, and on closer examination I did note that the truck has the smaller brake drums as used on F30s in the photo below note the space between drum and rim.

One point of clarification that someone may be able to add is at which point did they shift from the smaller drums as used with 16" rims on the larger trucks. Were the the smaller drums and smaller ball units only used on the C30 and F30

My reason for identifying the subject truck as being the 134 wb vs 101 or 158 wb is the space between end of gas tank and rear tires, to much space for the 101 and not enough for the 158 wb.

Can anyone add any information about the tank plumbing is a water or fuel tank from what can be seen?

Cheers Phil

[Haridimos]

The same seller has a photo of a FAT with limber and 25 pouder in German management, on EBAY also:

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Is that a CGT judging by the round ventilation holes? The likely Demands that would cover its delivery are either S/M 2020 or 2028...some of which latter were supplied to the AIF. FGT candidates are S/M 2020 as well.

[Phil Waterman]

We could also call this thread name that CMP

Pattern 12 Chevrolet based on the following:

1. Opening hood makes it a Pattern 12
2. Round air in lets one either side of the radiator
3. Coolant recovery tank above left front fender

What else can be spotted.

Cheers Phil

PS

Keith those are interesting points about the steering ends, some people like Bart Vanderveen would spot details like this and knew the introduction dates because they had a large collection parts books and would cross reference the before serial number such and such with the production serial number dates which would nail things like the when the Chevy coolant tank moved from the exposed location above the left fender to the more protected spot up under the fender. If I remember correctly the date of the change over from horizontal towing rings to vertical can be nail down the same way.

[paul Lincoln]

Looks like a 12 cab F30 to me. That type of marking on the door was mainly used by cavalry Regts.

[Bob Carriere]

Phil

Could it just be a F30 with transpanted 20 inch rims/tires for more clearance??? That would explain the small brake drums / extra clearance.

What size axles do you have on the front of your cab 12....?

It really gets confusing when you start considering that they also made Chev C60L with the small 16 inch rims/axles for Aussie contracts.....

Bob

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

To me those tyres on the water truck appear to look almost new, or at least in unworn condition. I thought that that might suggest that the wheels were indeed transplanted.

Would the water tank etc. have been purloined off a 4x2 1939 Chevy I wonder?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

Would the water tank etc. have been purloined off a 4x2 1939 Chevy I wonder?

Yes, that is what sprung to my mind, as it reminded me of a picture I saw on this forum (will look it up later).

Definitely not factory fitment, so it is either of local assembly or a field modification.

H.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Phil
Could it just be a F30 with transpanted 20 inch rims/tires for more clearance??? That would explain the small brake drums / extra clearance.

What size axles do you have on the front of your cab 12....?

It really gets confusing when you start considering that they also made Chev C60L with the small 16 inch rims/axles for Aussie contracts.....
Bob

Hi Bob

My Pattern 12 C60L has the smaller brake drums and I believe the smaller 5 inch steering balls. I don't think the smaller drum backer plates will fit on the 6 inch balls there is just not enough clearance for the lower adjustments.

My Pat 12 is on the 20inch rims that you brought down to me. Your right about the clearance issue on the 16 inch rims would end up with the pumpkin dragging in soft ground. The smaller 16 wheels does give the truck more pulling power but it is at the expense of road speed besides the added pulling power of the smaller wheels is lost to easier wheel spin/slip with the low gearing of the truck.

The confusion over which trucks had 16 and which had 20s even runs into the Pat 13s take a look at picture #3 on http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...20Columbia.htm see what you tell me about the truck wheel size, winch, wheel base this one drives me crazy. There seem to be a number of special use Pattern 13 long wheel base trucks listed as 60 series but with 16 inch rims. This is going to take some search in the parts books to figure out how they did it.

Back to the water truck, found a picture in one of Greggs books that shows the details of the tank fittings that can be seen an that picture identifies the truck as water tanker but it is on a C15A 101 wbs.

[Ken Hughes]

Hi guys,a F60S has one spring leaf more on the front springs than an F30,so if we could see in the photo we would know!,i have tried and can not see it.
Any one able to photoshop the photo?.

[Dianaa]

Originally Posted by paul Lincoln

<snip> That type of marking on the door was mainly used by cavalry Regts.

Cavalry or armour in particular. I'm not sure if it corrolates back to WWII or even WWI but post-WWII in Australia the diamond usually represented HQ.

Other door symbols:

• Triangle - A Squadron / Company
• Square - B Squadron / Company
• Circle - C Squadron / Company
• Rectangle (longest side vertical) - D Squadron / Company
• Rectangle (longest side horizontal) - Support Company / Battalion

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Yes, that is what sprung to my mind, as it reminded me of a picture I saw on this forum (will look it up later).

Definitely not factory fitment, so it is either of local assembly or a field modification.

Here you go, compare the subject vehicle with some pictures of water tank trucks as seen in the thread Unusual desert ( INDIAN ? ) Chev.

Possibly it was a version assembled & used in the Middle East only?

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Below is an AWM pic showing an Aust water truck version:

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

1939 VA Model or 1940 WA Model water carrier truck. These were assembled by General Motors Near East Limited in Rue Ptolomees, Alexandria, Egypt and were originally in a WO census series L 39000 to 39515 Contract V 3352 LORRY 30 CWT. 4 X 2 GS/WATER TANKERS 266 UNITS GS AND 84 WATER
133-INCH WHEELBASE for Egypt.



This is identical to an official GM photo of a water truck in their 1944 book and also the WHEELS & TRACKS issue's. I believe that these are '40 WAs now from studying the front radiator grille. The 158 1/2" w.b. Egyptian trucks referred to were of course WBs

[zemsi]

The auctions just closed. Unbelievable prices:

Euro 406 for the Water Tank Blitz
Euro 335 for the Gun Tractor

[Keith Webb]

So that's close to $1,000 Aus for both

I wonder whether the same buyer bought both to save on postage.

Originally Posted by zemsi

The auctions just closed. Unbelievable prices:

Euro 406 for the Water Tank Blitz
Euro 335 for the Gun Tractor

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

How in heck did the figures get up so high unless (being cynical) the buyers had sniperware and they outdid each other?