Alternative motive power

[D Ellery]

At the risk of being chucked of this forum or completely ignored I didn't want to hijack Darrins thread on Flathead types for carriers. So after reading Hans response with his 350 chevy powered carrier was wondering what other types of motive power and gearboxes are being used out there to turn those tracks. Oh well here goes, my LP2a is powered by a 6 cylinder GM VK Holden 202. Our Aussie friends know this engine well as thats her place of birth. To cut a long story short with the cost of restoring a flatty and the impatience of driving the carrier I bolted a CMP Chev 4 speed box via a 6 mm adaptor plate to the Holden 202 I had available. This was and is a temporary solution (kids cost $) Its been 4 years now since the Holden went in and to date has done very well. Apart from the exhaust note she drives similar to the v8 and the Chev box ratio is similar but the gear selectors are in a different position. There is here in NZ another LP2 that has a Holden 308 v8 with 350 auto trans behind it, and there was a picture posted on here somewhere of a carrier found in France with what looked like a Hercules 6 sitting in the back. So if you have an alternative power plant sitting in the back of your carrier give us a look as the adaption part of it alone is interesting. PS, Yes that is a ford colour on the Holden.

[Lew Skelton]

Hi Dave, I lifted out the old fordson diesel out of my carrier last weekend, I cant comment on how it ran (non runner when I got it) but it had an adaptor on the bellhousing that bolted straight up to the carrier gearbox. Also used the origional radiator.

[Ralph Volkert]

Has anyone used an automatic transmission?

I just had to ask, because, well, enquiring minds want to know!

[Stew Robertson]

Yep 289 Ford with a C3 auto
but sure a lot of mods
Rad, tail shaft etc. etc.
Just around the corner from Brian
Stew

[Hans Mulder]

I'm been thinking about a vortec V6 with a Turbo400 or 700R4 but my carrier is goofy enough as it is.

Attached are pics of thethe 350 and GM 4 spd.

[D Ellery]

Stew it must be a tight fit with the C3 transmission. Is your radiator in front or on top of the engine? Im running a International truck radiator with the biggest electric fan I could find and a bypass of to a smaller rad and oil cooler on a separate fan at the rear. After alot of tweeking the coolings good. Hans I like the radiator fan set up you have and especially the gear linkages, that must have been a pain to design and build. Cheers David.

[The Bedford Boys]

I've driven a carrier that had a 308 Holden v8 coupled to an auto box. (Dave, probably the same carrier you mentioned? Blackleys?) Hauled ass when you wanted it to, but got hot after relatively short run time. Nice for a first time carrier driver, but wouldn't ever go with an auto box myself.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Around here flatties are common enough that you don't have to think of anything else. Old Ford farm trucks had rebuilt motors put in them in the 1960s and saw little use after that before being abandoned. I must have a dozen of them lying around the yard. I don't pick them up anymore unless they look especially good .

[D Ellery]

Bedford boys I agree. The fun part of driving a carrier is all the throttle, steering and constant gear changing all done at the same time! As posted on Darrins thread top end speed isnt where you need it, its that low down torque thats required in a carrier. Hi Cletrac, my wifes brothers live in Bozeman Montana, maybe I should be sending them an e-mail

[Philliphastings]

Well all of thus talk of alternative engines certainly gets one thinking...

To have my original 21 stud flathead V8 shirt blick rebuilt runs into around Aud $4,000 - without doubt the single most expensive phase of the restoration.

A friends recently gave me a 4 Cylinder BMC Diesel engine ... I gyess I could make up some mounts & adapt it to fit temporarily - just until I win the lottery and have the flathead done.

Food for thought

Cheers

Phill

[Philliphastings]

Shirt blick = short block

[eddy8men]

i'm having a 24 stud rebuilt by a friend, i had figured on £700 but it will be more like £2000 by the time it's all together . sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay if you want it done right.
there's a local chap with a t16 that's put in a ford 4d deisel engine and swears by it, the main advantage being the extra torque for steering

rick

[Lynn Eades]

I have often thought about a 3.8 holden v6. More horses, revs higher, and over here can be bought for about $500 as opposed to about $5k to do up the flathead.

[Jordan Baker]

Ive enjoyed reading all what everyone has put into carriers over the years. The thing that I dont get is spending all the time and effort to adapt a new engine and transmission into something versus spending the time and money to rebuild what was already engineered to fit. When I look at some of the pictures with all the new mounts, linkages, fittings, ect ,ect, ect I think why not have spent that energy on what was originaly there.

My moto with any vehicle I have worked on is.... Since I have already spent X number of hrs on the vehicle, what's the problem with spending another hour or two getting it right.

[The Bedford Boys]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

Ive enjoyed reading all what everyone has put into carriers over the years. The thing that I dont get is spending all the time and effort to adapt a new engine and transmission into something versus spending the time and money to rebuild what was already engineered to fit. When I look at some of the pictures with all the new mounts, linkages, fittings, ect ,ect, ect I think why not have spent that energy on what was originaly there.

My moto with any vehicle I have worked on is.... Since I have already spent X number of hrs on the vehicle, what's the problem with spending another hour or two getting it right.

It's not time, it's the $$$. Sure, if any of us had the ways and means of rebuilding the engine for the cost of a suitable replacement, we would all do it. But it comes down to $$$. When it comes down to it, the original engine can still be fitted should one find the cash to rebuild it. I am with you on the "getting it right" part, but sometimes you are torn between "getting it right" and getting in to debt, or in s**t with the mrs....

[Hans Mulder]

I don't wish to cast aspersions on those who have been doing this for many years, but us guys in our mid 20's don't have all the necessary tools, know how, equity, etc. built up yet. It makes doing the job perfectly somewhat more difficult. My goal is to get it looking enough like a carrier to keep on going for the next 15 years until I have the time, money, tools, facilities, and other resources to make it perfect.

[ajmac]

The Loyd I have seen near me was fitted with a Fordson P6 diesel in the 60s, although the owner never saw it installed the previous farmer owner swore by the conversion said it made all the difference. In comparison the flathead V8 was gutless.

[Jordan Baker]

I guess what I was trying to say is why spend money on doing something only to spend more money down the road to redo your "custom" fit. That seems more expensive to me vrs going slower and within your means. This is all at the end of the day a hobby, I personally would never go into debt for it. As for us younger guys, I'm still in my 20's. I got my carrier at 22yrs, my car came at 24 yrs and I got a cell phone only 2.75 yrs ago due to work. It's all how you want to spend your money.

[D Ellery]

I hear what your saying Jordan. Mine was a simple decision at the time as I had all the parts to build a drive train and get the carrier rolling. The cost was so low that I have been able to fit out the vehicle for display. In my case if I had gone down the path of originality I would not have been able to drive , display and enjoy the vehicle as I have for the last few years as it would most probably still be in the shed. Apart from the engine she's all carrier. Cheers David.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

That seems more expensive to me vs going slower and within your means. This is all at the end of the day a hobby, I personally would never go into debt for it. It's all how you want to spend your money.

That would be precisely the reason for fitting a non-standard V8! The Ford Flathead is something of a enthusiast's engine, and finding an economical engine builder outside the American continent who knows their way around one is nearly impossible. As stated above, a Flathead/Sidevalve rebuild can cost upwards of $4000 this side of the equator.

2nd hand GM V8s (or Holdens) can be found reasonably easily and cheaply, and all the adapter work has been thought out long ago by Hotrodders of the past who wanted to fit newer, more powerful OHV V8s into older Ford chassies. Companies like Hurst, Offenhauser, Cragar and Edelbrock all made adapters to make it a simple bolt-in job, and some are still produced new today. They also regularly appear at swap meets. As David has said, it is a very economical way to get your vehicle moving while you get around to rebuilding that Ford V8 the right way. Down the track (pardon the pun!), when you finally do get the Flatty rebuilt, the GM engine and adapters will find a ready re-sale market, meaning you will virtually recoup your outlay.

[Stew Robertson]

The flat head is one of the easiet engines to rebuils the biggest problem is finding good blocks that are not cracked between the valve seats and barrels
Your own home made tools will work for valve removal and for less the a grand you can have all the parts- Oversize piston, crank regind, cam and gaskets your only other cost is clening the block and magna flux
I just finished a 100 hjp merc engine without labour I head 1047.00 in it
Then I had to put the starter on and rebuilding the Generator
I would rather rebuild an old flatty any day compared to a six banger Chuv
Stew

[Marc van Aalderen]

Hi All,

This Carrier was brought to the Netherlands by Dirk Leegwater. It has a Chrysler V8 with automatic TF8 gearbox. Dirk drove it in Canada when he purchased it and he told me it was very fast and turned like a dream.

It was sold after I declined to buy it to a Belgian guy who has since restored it.



Cheers,

[jeff davis]

I Have a 1950s Merc 110 hp Moter in My Carrier . I shortened the Oil Pan by 1 inch and bolted it in. Runs great and has that flathead sound.
jeff

[D Ellery]

Thanks Marc, Mean looking set up, not much room left for anything else though. Although I suppose the owner was only after a fun machine.

[D Ellery]

What was the last Ford v8 produced that could be bolted to the standard Ford truck gear box found in Carriers without any major modifications.

[Tony Smith]

Efi Mustang 5.0 with a simple adapter:

[John Mackie]

I have a new adaptor housing (for sale) Ford gearbox to Ford 4 cyl 220 CI diesel as used in Fordson tradtor.
This plate part # E9-GA-5 was used on Fordson Thames trucks fitted with the 4 cyl. petrol or diesel engines.
As the sump on these is much deeper than the V8 it would create all sorts of preblems with the flexable coupling.

[Rob Dyba]

Hi guys, as an experiment I thought I would trial fit a Commodore V6/Auto into an empty hull & see what the outcome would be. If this was to be something that a restorer was contemplating to do while an affordable flattie came along you would need to do a gearbox conversion, the Auto will not fit without cutting of the rails where the flatty would fit- not an option for me. I can't find an adaptor to mate a GM V6 to a CMPor Ford T8 box so that is that as V6/Auto goes unless you are prepared to remove a lot of original (structural) steel goes it's not a viable conversion. There is one Carrier owned by Emu Gully that is reported to be v6/Auto but I have not seen it move under it's own power, nor the install either.

Anyone got an adaptor to fit a V8 anything to a CMP box for sale? I have no flatties to spare, and to be honest I want a powerup over my STD LP carrier for a bit of fun.

Rob

[chris vickery]

I hear what you are saying Jordan but I will add my 2 cents...
I am all for originality, those of you who know me know that my restos are done in as correct a fashion as possible.
That being said, I would sooner see something "on the road" vs sitting in the barn if it was a case of $$$. Too many restoration projects end up spending most of their life in the shop while a guy gets around to doing all the things to make it right, if ever. Many times a well intended project goes awry after a long period of idle time.
I would hazard a guess in saying that worldwide, there are probably more carriers running with non-original engines than original.
I think many guys over the years seen how finicky the flathead is and I could actually see the use of a small 4 or 6 cylinder engine out of anything else used instead. We all know how flatty dizzys and coils like to be...
Truth is, small block engines are quite readily available and many time for cheap if not for free, especially if a guy has a project that is being upgraded (hotrod).