White ad

[Bill Murray]

I hope I have not posted this before, some interesting pics.
Bill

[cliff]

nice but a bit small Bill

[Bill Murray]

Sorry, Cliff:
I have troubles resizing a full page ad like this and I screwed up the original scan and cannot seem to fix it. Perhaps Hanno or you can resize it and clean it up.
Bill

[cliff]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Sorry, Cliff:
I have troubles resizing a full page ad like this and I screwed up the original scan and cannot seem to fix it. Perhaps Hanno or you can resize it and clean it up.
Bill

Bill I tryed but when trying to size it up it distorts for me so no go on printing or pics...sorry

[Bill Murray]

Trying again. Okay, good as I can get it. It was on my other pc as well and I used a different editing program. Get out your magnifying glass

The original wasn't much better.
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Nice ad! I am conjecting ex-French orders to French Contract 'F57(69)' according to my notes, which were acquired under British Ministry of Supply Demands S/M 2007 and 2014. Models 922 and 760? S/M 2007 also had some 'Ruxtell' trucks listed although all were White-Ruxtell. Please excuse my ignorance over White trucks, and the connection with Ruxtell.

Where there is a tenuous connection with MLU subject matter with these orders is where these ex-French Whites were assembled, at least those delivered to England and not Egypt direct. They were in fact assembled in the Hendon plant of General Motors Limited, but by Vauxhall Motors Limited in their export boxing operation. Vauxhalls shipped out military Bedfords in crates after splitting them down on delivery from Luton. The man in charge from the Ministry was the father of the former editor of American Car World magazine and other titles, Tony Beadle. Mr Beadle Sr. was based at AEC's Southall works and had various works under his control in west London.

[Bill Murray]

Hallo David:

Pending further research that leads us elsewhere, I believe that these are both ex-French White Ruxtall 922 models.

Bart's book shows both the "White" 920 and the "White-Ruxtall" 922 and two more excellent prints can be found in the Bellona Handbook #3 "British Army Transport 1939-1945 Tank Transporters, Recovery Vehicles, Machinery Trucks".

All photos are as close to identical to these two on this thread as can be except they are "used" It also seems the side mounted spare got ditched in the field in favour of the front mounting.

As regards the three "truck" photos in my post, the first is said to be used in mining operations in the US and the Orient???

The second is used by British Forces to transport their tanks.

The third is described as a load carrier for British Forces in Africa and of course, so was the tank transporter.

Sadly, my files are in a mess again with all the moving and removing but I know I have a short article on these trucks with more detail somewhere. I will post more when I find it.
Edit: Ruxtall were involved in making differentials and I believe some, part or all of the reart bogie and diff systems on trucks such as White. Sort of like a Chev-Thornton or Ford-MH deal.
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I have deleted the previous text as I have the definitive answer to hand: see next posting.

Census Numbers L 242806 and 242833 were listed as 'Lorry 10 ton 4 x 2' were allocated to White model 760 4 x 4s. These might have ended up as RAF aircraft transporters on the Liverpool Docks - Speke run alongside Fordson W0T3 and 7W Tructors.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

WHEELS & TRACKS # 1 no less explains that the French ordered 704S 4 x 2 trucks, as G/S trucks and then at least one huge tanker. The French then ordered a large number of 6-wheel chassis of which 145 were fuel tankers: see below. The model 720 4 x 2 was rated in the US at 5-tons. The British apparently ordered very similar model 760 4 x 2 chassis of which 28 were used by the RASC..including L 242823 out of the batch L 242806 to 242833, 'Lorry 10-ton 4 x 2' acquired under S/M 2014 as a diverted order in fact. However, the file sheds a slightly different light on the 760s.

The National Archives file relating to the Ministry of Supply's acquisition of ex-French trucks [including Dodge T 203 4 x 4 with 12-foot metal cargo bodies..T203-B-143 acquired under S/M 2012] shows that on 18 July 1940 London was notified that 300 White-Ruxtell 922 'heavy duty double line axle' trucks were acquired under assignment, capacity 24 tons equipped with 18-feet cargo bodies and loading skis also double row winches. The bodies were 82 inches wide designed to take fighting vehicles.

Secondly, the tank trucks: the model 920 trucks had a 18,000-litre capacity, and 760 4 x 2s had a 13,000-litre capacity. Mack EXBX trucks also delivered under 2014 had tank bodies as well originally and either these bodies were sold off in the US or the RAF used them..the file is not specific.

Thirdly by December 1940, French contract F57(69) covered model 920, of which 10 were delivered to England under S/M 2014. The same contract may also have covered 150 Mack and 50 White model 760 trucks which were all under 2104 as well. That left the 300 White model 922 trucks delivered under S/M 2007.

In addition the Census List shows that numbers L 4166289 to 4166297 to S/M 2007 were listed as 'Ruxtell' trucks. This is probably because there were at least two shipments as not enough space was available ex-NYC on the ?Dutch? ship.

Which British trucks in the advert were 920 or 922 models I have no idea still, but could the top one be a 922?


Now I thought that the sheer scale of the $ expenditure by the French should be revealed.

1. 300 WHITE-RUXTELL 922 $3,373.500
2. 1500 GMC ACK-355 4 x 4 $2,559,000
3. 1000 GMC ACKW-355 6 x 6 $2,419,000
4. 1850 GMC AC-504 4 x 4 $3,518,700
5. 2650 CHEVROLET Houlder-Thornton 6 x 4 $5,233,750
6. 1500 DODGE T-203 4 x 4 $2,758,500

All but the Whites had bodies with collapsible troop seats.

Phew!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

WHEELS & TRACKS # 1 no less explains that the French ordered 704S 4 x 2 trucks, as G/S trucks

Is this Life Magazine picture showing the early demise of one of the French Army White 704S trucks?

A view showing an Army truck smashed into a tree. Location: France. Date taken: 1940

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Could be...it's one way of stopping the enemy getting a usable truck!

Did I really quote all that info in the previous posting? I can't recall doing so.
One suggestion from the son of the Ministry of Supply inspector stationed at AEC Southall, was that the Whites were uncrated at assembled at the GM Ltd-owned (former Hendon assembly plant to 1930) building in The Hyde onn Edgware Road, London. This partly a Frigidaire Ltd factory and partly leased to vauxhall Motors Ltd as a reverse export boxing plant. Makes sense!

[Mike K]

That White squished into the tree is a very good example of what modern car makers rave about .. cars now having a 'crumble zone' that absorbs the impact of a major accident ... the cab is intact and relatively undamaged . But I wonder if the engine is sitting beside the drivers seat !

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

That White squished into the tree is a very good example of what modern car makers rave about .. cars now having a 'crumble zone' that absorbs the impact of a major accident ... the cab is intact and relatively undamaged . But I wonder if the engine is sitting beside the drivers seat !

Or whether the steering column and the drivers internal organs had an unplanned meeting..... an altogether too common occurence in past.

[welbike]

Hi all,

This is indeed a White 704S, hope the tree didn't get too damaged!! Note also the original diamond thread pattern on the tyres, and one of the rear wheels is removed. (should be duals)

Now I know why there is only one survivor, (mine) found in a scrapyard in Troyes, France, there were 1500 made totally.

See here a picture of my White



Have many pictures of Whites used by the Germans, here's one



On the scrapyard in France was a model 920 too, but the fuel tanker body was removed, it was scrapped 14 years ago, I saved the cab and dash.

Have parts lists and drivers manuals for a lot of these ex french contracts trucks.

Cheers,

Lex Schmidt

[Bill Murray]

Hi Lex:

I cannot speak for the other members, but most of them know that my specific interest in the military vehicle hobby is the history of US make military wheeled vehicles sold to or assembled in other countries during the period 1935-1945.

The "French Contract" or "Ex French Contract" vehicles have always been of interest to me but there are not a lot of photos out there either in Forums or books, on Ebay or Google or whatever.

Primarily through Bart Vanderveen's books, we do know that White, Chevrolet, GMC and Dodge vehicles were contracted for by the French in 1940 and there is a fair body of knowledge about this but not too many photos.

If I may ask, if you have a photo archive of such vehicles, could you share some of that with us on this Forum as you have the time.

Thanks,
Bill

[welbike]

Hi Bill,

Not a problem! Bart Vanderveen gave me many factory pictures, and the parts list, and have found much stuff the last 14 years since I have owned the truck, have a comparison test between the 704S, Dodge and GMC trucks, done by the french army in '39 or early '40, don't know where they got the time to do it!!! this is a bad copy, in french, have to retype it one day.

For starters I have a PDF file of an article I wrote at the beginning of this year for the norwegian magazine "Mud and Snow" I did not write the captions! it's too big here to download, email me on welbike(at)welbike.net and I'll email it to anyone interested.

Here's some more B/W ones:










Have also an IWM picture of the White Ruxtall tanktransporter, and much more, will have to scan a lot of pictures still.

Cheers,

Lex Schmidt

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I have one photo taken around November 1941 of GMCs awaiting repairs by GM Limited at Bamber Bridge near Preston, including an ex-Searchlight crewcab COE. There are also photos of ex-French GMCs after demob and refurb in our new book.

I also have, I remember now, a photo of a newly-assembled Chevrolet YR Houlder-Thornton 6x4 around April 1941 that is ex-French. That may appear ina future book.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by welbike

This is indeed a White 704S, hope the tree didn't get too damaged!! Note also the original diamond thread pattern on the tyres, and one of the rear wheels is removed. (should be duals)

Hi Lex,

I knew you were coming in to confirm the identity. Hope you like the picture.

Groet,
Hanno

[Bill Murray]

Hi Lex:
Thanks for the extra photos, they were all new to me.
To save time, you can email the file you mentioned to me
Regards,
Bill

[welbike]

Bill, did you ever got the article?? the email kept bouncing!!

Let me know,

Lex

[Bill Murray]

Lex:

Sorry for not thanking you earlier, yes I did get the file.
Bill

[serge]

Hello

In France there is an other WHITE 704 , certainly an "ex French contract".
So ,ALEX, your truck has a little brother in FRANCE

Regards

[welbike]

Hi Serge, I had heard rumours, but not seen pictures yet, do you have contact details of the owner???

I have many spare parts!

Thanks,

Lex Schmidt

welbike(at)welbike.net

[serge]

Hello

In France we can find (but it's becoming more and more difficult) such lorry in very good state with there original body like the one showed in my post reply. Nevertheless the most part of them have knowed civilian life and all military markings have been erased and also the body modified or changed.

So about this truck , the only thing we know about it's story is that it was stored more than 15 years in the garage before to see the light again six years ago.
Sorry but there is no "Chrimas story " attached to this truck !!!

Regards

[Alex van de Wetering]

Although,

The windscreen contour seems to be slightly different, I thought this picture would find a good place in this thread.



from the link in our scrapyards in France thread: http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile...251-113995.htm



Alex

[serge]

hello ALEX

You are right , the WHITE 704 I had posted , has losted it's original windscreen. Nevertheless it owns an original woody body.
Do you know the fate of the truck showed in you last post reply?

Regards

[Alex van de Wetering]

hello ALEX

You are right , the WHITE 704 I had posted , has losted it's original windscreen.

Serge, To be honest I wasn't referring to the windscreen in your picture, but I was referring to the one in my picture. Your picture and the pictures Lex posted seem to show a slightly "lazy" windscreen contour when you look at the top edge, while the one I posted seems to have a more "straight" edge on the top of the windscreen. Maybe a different type?

Sadly I don't know the fate of the truck in the pictures or the location, but I guess it might still be out there. I seem to be an excellent candidate for restoration. You could try contacting the guy who posted the pictures on the forum-auto forum; some of the guys posting pictures of rusting cars in scrapyards are helpfull in giving the location and/or owners names, while others try hard to keep it a secret

A few more of the next page on forum-auto:






source: Forum-auto.com

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Sadly I don't know the fate of the truck in the pictures or the location, but I guess it might still be out there. I seem to be an excellent candidate for restoration.

This truck "survivor no.3" is now advertised on MilWeb:

White 704S
Rare truck.
Delivered to French army - 1500 vehicles.
Many where taken by Germans in 1940 and used on the Russian front.
Very few known actually to survive.
Complete, original engine, not seized , rear body to be rebuilt.
French papers.
3500 €.
Alexis : 0033 (0) 609 640 982

[welbike]

yes, the owner offered it first to me, but one is enough!!

If someone decides to buy this very rare truck, note that I have most of the missing parts for it, exept the cargobed.

Cheers,

Lex Schmidt

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by serge

From time to time, it appears a wonderfull oldy to be sale mainly on a french web site "LE BON COIN". After a white 704 a MORRIS COMMERCIAL C8 is for sale.

Ah yes, here is the ad for the White 704

http://www.leboncoin.fr/utilitaires/...99.htm?ca=21_s

Amazing find, but it seems to be the same one as advertised before.