M38A1 front alignment?

Casey B · #1 09-09-12, 22:49

Well I took the old lady out for a drive...My Jeep! Ha! Anita would kill me if I called her that and I am waaay older anyway.
It was kind of bucking and occilating at the just under 40MPH speed. i know I got it up that high...hehehehe.

Anyways I noticed that the drivers wheel is not straight up and down when veiwed from the front. It is tilted out at the top so the castor is out or is it camber? Anyway it's out so how to adjust it so it is striaght like the right (pass.) side. I didn't see any shims like a Norht American beast has. Although I wasn't looking was I? It drives nice and stright so I know it is not a toe out or in issue.

Any help would be great...

Also have to replace the diffs gaskets. 80 weight gear oil is correct?
And can this also be used to top up the gear baox and the transfer case?

Thanks Casey

rob love · #2 10-09-12, 15:21

80W90 is the oil used in all the gearboxes on your Jeep including the steering box.

There are a pair of bearings on the knuckles of the front axle. Quite common for them to be in bad shape. If bad, they could be the reason why you have a wheel that sits funny. Otherwise, the camber and castor of the front wheels are part of the integral design of the front axle. Caster can be set by using wedges between the spring and the axle, and there are tapered shims that fit between the spindle and the knuckle in order to set the camber, but I have never seen them for the M38A1s.

Best bet is to take it in for an alignment and get their report of the overall condition. Commonly worn items on the jeep steering are the bellcrank, the center link, the knuckle bearings, and the steering box. Get their report and then get ready to do some work. The alignment shop will ot normally be able to set the alignment unless everything is up to scratch. The "death wobble" that everyone talks about on Jeeps is usually attributable to worn parts somewhere.

chris vickery · #3 10-09-12, 16:35

I did a total rebuild of my front end aside from the bearings on the knuckles to make sure that I have a solid front end. The alignment is not too hard to do.

Casey B · #4 13-09-12, 01:00

Thanks Rob and Chris Rob the 80W90 does that include the diffs as well?

Death wobble is the right word for it too was a fun ride till then but calm heads prevailed and she got home...the jeep that is... the wife walked!

rob love · #5 13-09-12, 01:56

Diffs, steering box, transmission and transfer case all use 80W90.

Casey B · #6 08-10-12, 22:53

I noticed the other day while driving and looking at the wheel, the front left wheel has a wobble as it is warped or has a slight buckle. This can't be helping either. I will move that to the spare wheel. Tire Tubes easy to come by or is there a place that is better priced than the Jeep fellows that supply the military stuff? I have 5 newer tires that I can replace the original 1966/67 tires with now.

Casey B · #7 01-11-12, 02:04

Well I got the rear pinion out and the rear of the transfer case drive.
I had to remove the speedo gear assmebly cus there was no way that seal was coming out! I split it 3 places and still nothing so i really didn't want to damage the splines...so off it came. I'll work on the seal on the bench.

The shaft surface has a deffinet grove in it from sitting too long so a speedy sleeve will work.

The rear end is another subject.
I have not seen a seal this small before nor have I ever seen it where the seal is almost on the edge of the pinion shaft...?photos below.

Am I correct in saying that the seal in the diff is only about as round as a 50 cent piece? Red arrow A or the whole large cone shaped end Green arrow B?

I really don't want to to start trying to pull anything out till I know what to expect.

The photo after the one with the arrows is the pinion shaft.

The pinion shaft is a little worn but only the end as it looks like it does not go in that deep...? The cone that is with the shaft was welded at one place and a crude weld at that...?
Was it supposed to be welded to the shaft? And no washer behind the nut either!
Only the rear transfer shaft had a washer.

The next is the obvious seal slaughter!

The last is the rear transfer shaft with the park brake assembly attached. It is the real leaker and will need a sleeve.

Grant Bowker · #8 01-11-12, 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey B

The last is the rear transfer shaft with the park brake assembly attached. It is the real leaker and will need a sleeve.

When putting on speedy sleeves, one set of instructions I received with a sleeve suggested mixing up some epoxy, filling the groove with it and pressing on the sleeve (before the epoxy set). The aim being to provide backing for the sleeve over the groove. I normally (gently) file down any burrs or ridges beside the groove to make for a smoother sleeve install. Just enough to remove the ridge, if I slip and mark the shaft it makes more work cleaning up my shoddy workmanship.

rob love · #9 01-11-12, 06:11

The pinion seal is the whole thing indicated by the green. It is a fairly standard seal used on the smaller Dana differentials, up to the 44 series. Ask for a National 5778 or equivalent.

The roughly welded cone you are talking about is likely the dirt deflector. It's purpose is to prevent sand and dirt from being attracted to the moist seal surface, which would cause rapid wear. They were welded a stamped steel deflector to a cast yoke.....it wasn't always pretty. Sometimes they were simply pressed on, and could work loose. You would then hear a ringing sound when you stop as the slinger would continue to spin on the yoke.

Casey B · #10 01-11-12, 07:01

Thanks Guys. Rob as always you know your stuff.
I will get to work on it straight away. Looks like it is welded in with rust so I'll take it easy while pulling and chiseling it out.
I'll fit the sleeve first then take the burs down..I see how that will make a better fit Grant!

Will ask this do any of you feel the diff pinion shaft shaft in the second picture needs a sleeve?
I know the one for the transfer does.

Thank you fellows Casey

rob love · #11 01-11-12, 13:07

You can get away with that diff flange. We would normally just polish the surface with some extra fine crocus cloth, and if the groove was still there, install the seal to a different depth than before.

Casey B · #12 02-11-12, 04:16

Thanks Rob I'll try it this weekend!

Casey B · #13 03-11-12, 03:21

Okay I managed to get the transfer case rear seal out and there seemed to be a this piece of what looked like a gasket that was between the seal casing and the housing that the seal fits into. Is this a gasket or a piece of the seal itself? pic shows the piece and the housing.

I tried to get a part no off it I can see 2?0WM118

If anyone knows what it should be it will help them source it out...napa lordco etc. Thanks

rob love · #14 03-11-12, 03:43

That is a washer, non-metallic, paper, .040 thick, pn (victor gasket co) 26301. In other words it is a gasket that goes behind the seal to prevent the oil from sneaking around the outer edge of the seal. That was in the days before RTV. Put a slight film of rtv (automotive silicone...Room Temperature Vulcanizing) on the outer edge of your seal before installing and you'll be fine. Throw away the paper washer.

If you really want to be original, you can get some .040 thick gasket paper and cut one, but you really don't need it. Also, it will only work if your seal is a double sided case like what you took out. Most likely your new seal is a more modern single lip and open on the inside. The gasket will likely do nothing on that type of seal.

Casey B · #15 03-11-12, 04:04

Hey thanks Rob. I have some of the parts ready at the store but others are on the way.
I figured the seal was ancient. I know to put some grease in the spring side as well but will most likely put the seal in while the whole unit is on the bench, then re install the unit.
maybe will have it ready for the Lions football game tomorrow for the veterens...? We'll see...?

rob love · #16 03-11-12, 04:43

The reason you put the grease on the inside is to prevent the spring from popping off while you are driving it in. Don't overdo the grease.

There should be shims in between the housing you removed and the transfer case. They are what set the bearing preload. Make sure they are clean and re-install all of them.

Casey B · #17 04-11-12, 04:17

Yes there was one shim. I did clean it and it is ready to put back in. Yes sparing the grease. I did get the same seal you suggested for the pinion the 5778. It has the goop on the rear part of the seal housing...I'll put some rtv on it anyway..on the sides... Thanks for the heads up Rob!

Casey B · #18 08-11-12, 04:53

Well got the rear seal out and compared it to the original...they look good. The onlt difference is that the rear pinion seal i had in there was a cone shape. Now i know this shouldn't really matter but the new one is not and the new seal will run on a previously unused part of the shaft. We are talking rear pinoin diff here.

So with the discolouration on the unused portion there are no grooves...can this be cleaned up with super fine steel wool to polish the surfice back to smooth clean?

Also since the groove that was in the rear output shaft wasn't deep at all and there were no burs the directions said to put a small amount of a non hardening compound to hold the speed sleeve in place. I am going to say that the RTV will work for this and let it cure before installation?

Do you think it wise to remove the ridge that is provided to press the sleeve on? It is already cut for this purpose but it did say it is not essential to remove if it is not in the way... I am thinking take it off once cured and in place..the less stuff that can come off there the better.

Otherwise will have it back on the road Monday hangover or not.

rob love · #19 08-11-12, 06:24

I would polish it with some extra fine emery cloth and just run the seal without a speedi sleeve. Saves you $40.

In the old days we would use crocus cloth, but I am not sure they make that anymore. But if you mount the yoke in a vise, and work thin strips of fine emery like a shoe shine cloth, the shine should come back.

Casey B · #20 08-11-12, 19:29

Roger that Rob!
I like the part about saving the cash as well.

Thanks again get it done tonight after work.

What are you doing for the 11 Rob?

Casey B · #21 10-11-12, 17:29

BTW Rob do you happen to know the torque of the bolts for the rear of the transfer case that houses the seal and the gear drive for the speedo?
i am still searching for manuals for this...? thanks! Casey

rob love · #22 10-11-12, 20:47

30 pounds. Here is a link to repair/rebuild of the case. Since yours is not being rebuilt, and likely has reasonable wear, do not bother with the shim adjustments.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge...uild_guide.htm

Casey B · #23 19-11-12, 05:28

Well finally had some time to crawl under and put the rear back on the transfer case. and yes a bolt got easy to turn when torquing,"Why do we keep turning knowing it's gonna break" It did so there was enough to grab it with the Vise grip and get it out then start over with new bolts. I didn't think 30 pounds was that much but it did snap so was weak anyway. Now that the skid plate is off I may as well move to the fron end and do that pinion and front output for the transfer case as well.
If you read this Rob are the seals the same for the front Diff as it was for the rear... a 5778? and the front output the same seal as the rear output?
I hope to be able to re assmeble it sooner than later...
Thanks for the good advice Casey

rob love · #24 19-11-12, 05:57

You can get away with about 24 pounds torque, just to be safe. A lot of the problem could be the cheap torque wrenches we buy.....many are not properly calibrated, and if they were when new, that calibration can wander over the years.

Front pinion seal is the same as the back pinion seal, and the transfer case front output is also the same as the transfer case back one.

Casey B · #25 22-11-12, 05:49

Awsome thanks Rob may get to it this weekend!
yes I know what you mean about the wrenches...Ha Princess auto all the way!
I got some new bolts from work. the old ones were a grade 5 new ones are an 8 but will take it easy on the torquing!

Casey B · #26 30-12-12, 20:08

Well finally going to get to it...maybe today. weather is nice and sunny too so...
have to ask rob torquing the four bolts for the seal/speedo gear housing 30 lbs or 25 to be safe...should I put anything on the shim pack...to seal it on the block or housing itself before bolting it on?
Also the torque of the companion flnge that holds the brake drum...it was not that tight to begine with so tighten it up as before or torque to the same as the yoke...175 ft lbs?
Hope you are doing well and the 6x is keeping you busy!
Casey

rob love · #27 30-12-12, 23:30

Go to 25. Grade 8 should handle 30, but why push your luck. 26 is the low end for the grade 8 I believe, so you should be OK there too.

Yoke should be very tight, so 175. It only tightens up the compnents on the shaft, and does not effect the bearing preload. That is controlled by the shims, and you are working with worn bearings anyway. We usually held the flange with a holding tool, because getting the proper torque didn't work as the engine would simply turn over. The reason the nut was loose was likely that the last guy installed it with a weak impact gun, or hand tools that were inadequate.

Casey B · #28 31-12-12, 04:04

Thanks Rob Looks like it will get done tonight or tomorrow!

Casey B · #29 11-01-13, 06:42

Well tomorrow has not come but I will ask anyone that might be reading this if they can look on the restoration area of this site and see that I am asking about a radiator..where it may be from...? If anyone knows it would be great news to me...
thanks Casey