Blue Headlights?

[Chris Munford]

Howdy,

I am aware that aussie carriers had blue head light lenses. I assume that these were for black out driving purposes to dull the light down? The other question I have is, were these on all carriers or only some? I have seen wartime pictures of some with and some without. Were they only put on early or late war carriers?

Cheers
Chris

[David Burr]

The blue lenses appear to help produce a whiter light.

[The Bedford Boys]

The blue headlights aren't bad to drive with at night. I've driven a carrier at night with clear lenses and I could see better when I turned them off! My understanding is that in NZ at least they started off making them with blue lenses and by the end of production weren't putting the blue film in between the two glasses that make up the lense. This may have been due to lack of material to make the blue part, or they deemed it unnecessary for some reason. The blue definitely makes for a better light to drive at night with.

[Chris Munford]

Ok. I am just wondering whether my carrier would have had them but as you say the early ones came out of the factory like that in NZ so it may be the same in Aus.

[Lynn Eades]

If I recall correctly, in that picture parts book, they are marked obsolete.

[The Bedford Boys]

The blue or clear ones Lynn? All the NOS ones I've seen have clear lenses

[Chris Munford]

Marked obsolete as of what date?

[Lynn Eades]

O.K. so I remembered it wrong. There doesn't appear to be a clear headlight lens at all. Only a blue one (101/2)(page 2 of, List of spare parts for the Carrier M.G.(Aust) 1943)
On page 3, the red tail light lens is cancelled in favour of the 102/2A blue lens.

Maybe the clear headlight lenses are a post war thing?

[Richard Farrant]

The question I have been asking for years is about blue tail lamps on British tanks and Carriers. I came across this when installing the electrical system on a restored Vickers Light tank Mk6a. There is a blue and a red lamp at the rear, with individual switching on instrument panel, I believe early Carriers were also like this. Nothing in the manuals to indicate why. I wondered if it was switched to blue if reversing back when in action to warn infantry behind.

[Lynn Eades]

Richard, it appears with the LP2/2A at least, that all lights had blue lenses.(left, right, front, and rear) I haven't done any night driving with them and do not know what the effects of blue lensed light are compared to red.
What tail light colours did the infantry tanks have?
I would have thought an option like you say was more important with them than with carriers and tanks that were too fast for infantry.
This probably deserves its own thread?
I hope someone can enlighten us?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Richard, it appears with the LP2/2A at least, that all lights had blue lenses.(left, right, front, and rear) I haven't done any night driving with them and do not know what the effects of blue lensed light are compared to red.
What tail light colours did the infantry tanks have?
I would have thought an option like you say was more important with them than with carriers and tanks that were too fast for infantry.
This probably deserves its own thread?
I hope someone can enlighten us?

Lynn,
In 1937, I don't think there were any infantry tanks as such, well not in great numbers. This was only on rear in British armour as far as I am aware.

[The Bedford Boys]

I always thought the two colours on the back were so you could tell whether the carrier was coming or going, like a ship.

[Lynn Eades]

So why did they change them then? (to all blue)

[The Bedford Boys]

No idea. Has anyone got an original of that picture parts book?

[Chris Munford]

That is interesting as my carrier had blue and red rear lights. I assumed that the red light may have been used as a tail light for normal night driving and the blue for blackout driving.

I have seen some wartime pictures of carriers with clear headlight lenses and that is what makes me question it. Here are a few below

http://prntscr.com/938vdd
http://prntscr.com/938vp6

Also, if you see this video below from NZ it seems that most carriers here have clear lenses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlbXhVcaJ0Q

Chris

[The Bedford Boys]

When lined up they look clear, but when driving out of the gate, they look blue to me.

The lenses are two pieces of glass with a blue film sandwiched between them. So natural light can reflect off the first layer of glass, making them appear clear.

The blue film hates water, and contracts when exposed to it, which is why so many blue lenses appear badly tarnished. The seal around the rim of the glass lets go and water gets in. I pulled a tarnished headlight apart outside on the picnic table to see how they went together. A light shower came over and very soon the blue film had wrinkled up terribly and smelt awful.

It's an interesting topic, hopefully someone can come up with some conclusive evidence as to why the different colours and why they either started with blue headlights and went to clear, or the other way around.

[Chris Munford]

Yes, hopefully someone will have a book out there that says exactly the information we are after.

I wonder why they smelt? Something they used to colour the glass maybe.

[Lynn Eades]

Chris, Alex said the glass is clear with a blue plastic? film in the middle.
I can confirm that according to a 1940 dated British carrier book, that the left (port) side tail light is red and that the right side (starboard) is blue.
This was very shortly after negated when the carrier fleet went to a single (assume red) tail light.

[Chris Munford]

Well, I found this in my manual which sheds some light on the subject.

[Darrin Wright]

My book list the following:
101-2 lens blue headlamp (pg92)

It also list Lamp Ass- tail blue- with side mounting-with no side window. This was utilised on the LHR of the LP2/2A
It list the Lamp Ass- tail red- with side window and mounting. This was utilised on the RHR of the BGC.

I have a NOS red lamp unit fitted to my BGC, the 2 lights are different due to the solid mounting of the elbow at the rear for the wiring.

How and why they were different I am not sure, although red and blue light spectrum is different under different tactical conditions, although they probably were not that advanced back then....no night vision equipment like we have today.

I have seen NOS headlamp lens, they have a dark film between the 2 glass sections. Due to the last 70 years I cannot garantee the accuracy of the shade/tint. They do fade to yellow then clear in UV rays. I would class them not so much as blue, but a very dark blue/black shade.

[David Dunlop]

I wonder if there is an organic gel component to the blue film, which goes ponsy over time when exposed to moisture?

David

[Chris Munford]

So I assume that what we have got from this is that all carriers came out of the factory whether early or late with blue headlights and they simply went clear after a while in the elements.

[Lynn Eades]

No Chris, I don't think so? I have a head light here in which the glass has been painted green. Where the paint has been scratched off, I can see it is a laminated glass that the centre plastic has gone yellow. I would guess that this was originally a clear glass. I can't imagine it ever having been blue (doesn't mean it wasn't)
This light has only ever had one coat of paint and is the dark green green that some Kiwis will know about on early LP2 carriers.
The bulb is an Osram275, Gas filled, made in England, 6Volt 24 Watt.(just if someone wanted to know)
There doesn't appear to be any marking on the glass.

Talking about tail light lenses now. (I have 2 of each, in original packaging, nos)

The red lens is marked HELITE and SAFETY in a small circle with a kangaroo pictured between the words.
The blue lens is marked Triplex.

Interesting that the Australian carriers had the blue and red tail lights installed on opposite sides to the early British carriers.

[Chris Munford]

Lynn, interesting, thanks. That could be what the others were talking about saying that the blue eventually fades to a clear to yellow colour.

[Chris Munford]

Ok, so I looked in the spare parts book which was printed in 43 and it only lists blue like stated by Lynn. Also, a second question on the side regarding the air scoops on carriers and the wire mesh and wood frame that goes in them. What date did they actually come out and were first used?

[Lynn Eades]

Chris, can I suggest you start a new thread for the new topic?
That way, when someone does a search to find out about air scoops, they don't have to think of "blue lights" to find the thread.
In saying that, I think lots of threads go off track.
On the lights, I have a cd of a British parts book dated 1942. It covers the older carriers and the Universals. In the front it says 1 tail light with a "Ruby" (red) lens and in the back it says two tail lights with blue lenses.
The U.C. had one tail light, the earlier carriers had two tail lights.

[The Bedford Boys]

When was your Carrier built Chris?

I picked up a tail light from a vintage parts yard the other week and it had a broken red lens in it, with the Melite Safety logo and everything, so I'm going to go with the Blue/Red combo on my carrier. Just need some new lenses and I'll be away laughing.

[Chris Munford]

Alex,

I may have a spare red somewhere but I will have to have a dig around to see if I can find it. I pulled my lights apart yesterday to give them a clean up and noticed that they also have the Melite Safety with the roo on them but the lenses were turned the other way so I could see that when they were together

Chris