Found/for sale 2 WW2 Ford V8's in crate

[Dave Newcomb]

On a Hot Rod site, H.A.M.B. Gene's Hot Rods in S Carolina has found two WW2 81A Military V8's $3500 @ If I knew how to post a link I would. Still in the Ford USA crates. Newc

[Jordan Baker]

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ads-2.1088567/

[Jordan Baker]

Pictures for future reference

[Jordan Baker]

more pictures

[Jordan Baker]

last three

[chris vickery]

Not sure what the current price of a Ford flathead is, but I spent $3000 getting one rebuilt back in 1997- 20 years ago.
To find a factory original still in the crate is something. It all depends on how it was stored etc as it will likely require a teardown anyways to ensure the cleanliness and integrity of the complete engine, gaskets, seals, bearings etc.
At the very least, an unmolested original zero mileage block to freshen up and get a great motor from.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Great find....

What is this pulley set up for?

[Tony Smith]

Ford cars had the radiator fan mounted on a separate pulley at a lower centreline to the generator. This was spaced about 1 1/2" in front of the water pump/generator single belt. This pulley was mounted on a bracket that bolted to the front of the Generator "foot", and was separately adjustable for belt tension.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

At the very least, an unmolested original zero mileage block to freshen up and get a great motor from.

The first post suggests it is an 81A engine (ie 221ci 85hp), but Canadian CMP engines of 239ci/95hp were also fitted with C81A heads. It has the Hydrovac valve and provision on the inlet manifold for the CMP-style forward oil-filler. Could this be a 239 99A engine?

This engine is ex-mil with the bellhousing drilled for an oil cooler, such as found in a Carrier. Can anyone decipher the stencilling on the back?

[Stew Robertson]

my memory is not good but is this not like the lynx set up
guess I will have to pull some pictures
a lot of the Canadian engines had the forward filler caped as in the pics.

[Lynn Eades]

Tony, can you expand? Do you mean C81T heads? (C81A v C81T)
Firstly we need to differentiate between Canadian and U.S. production. Is this U.S. with Canadian heads?
The "Hydrovac" is a vacuum brake booster. The "Hydrovent" is Ford's early P.C.V. system. I am surprised to see the PCV valve fitted horizontally as they have no spring and rely on gravity (or am I learning something?) The Hydrovent makes this a 42 engine? with positive rear main seal, oil bath breather, etc.
What era does the 81A head stem from? This should dictate what block it is as the valve center line shifted. (not done in U.S. engines)
I am gaining some familiarity with Canadian engines, but these are U.S production and the few details I know become of no consequence when dealing with U.S. engines
I thought the extra oil port was std production in Canadian wartime truck engines?

[Tony Smith]

I don't think these ARE US production. The "Original Ford Shipping crates" don't say Ford or a part number, but do give a Sth Carolina delivery address and say they weigh 225Kg. Hardly the original wartime box.

The engine in the crate has the hydrovent vertical, the other engine has it horizontal. 81A/81T is the 1938 model year, but these heads continued to be used long after that. I have never seen a forward fill oil point on a US manifold, only Canadian. Timing gear cover is for a 2-bolt distributor, suggesting a post '41 date. The stamped engine number follows no convention I know of, so this engine could be for an industrial application, so things like distributor, Hydrovent, Dual temp senders,etc might not follow the usual ID rules.

For all I know, the engine number might even mean it was reco'd in North Carolina in Dec 1991. Any clues ID'ing the stencilling? 505 W/S something?

[Lynn Eades]

Tony, have a look at the first photo of Jordan's post #5. The block number appears to end in a 7, without a suffix. That possibly limit the block to a 67 or 77 making it 1936 or 1937 production? When did the 3rd oil port start? There is no casting rise there, so it may have been drilled at a rebuild.
There are no "7s" used in 1941 to 1945 model numbers. (not Canadian anyhow)

[JoshuaCarroll]

Guys,

I am new to the forum and was not sure where to post this but hopefully someone will be willing to help.

I bought a NOS Ford of Canada Flathead 1938-42 military surplus engine. Engine is clearly Ford of Canada. C81A heads. 81 cast in block. Pulled on head and is 3-1/16 bore, valves appear to be stainless with Ford script. “WC 1363” stamped on intake surface. Oak wood crate has “KG 225” stamped on outside. I think the intended application is British Univeral Carrier OR CMP (Canadian Military Pattern) truck. Someone also said maybe a “Scat” but I cannot find any WWII vehicles called Scat. My intake looks like https://youtu.be/l_Wjej1lmWw but the passenger side exhaust manifold is slightly different (more like a pickup). Any help is greatly appreciated. Under the cosmoline and dirt is dark blue paint. Thanks, Josh

[Bob Carriere]

Welcome to the forum.......

....even if you are going backward....... usually guys find a beat up old CMP truck then look for an engine..... you found the engine and now need a truck!!!

Have you tried turning the engine by hand??? remove the spark plugs and dribble in some light motor oil than try turning it..... no plugs is easier.

You could build yourself an engine stand and fire the sucker up to hear it rumble....

Good luck.....

[Michael R.]

As Bob says, welcome Josh.
I believe you have an engine assembly quite similar to, if not actually a C21T-6097. That would be correct with the C81 block, at 221 c.i., 85 H.P.. An engine in this assembly style may be found in a 1942 R.H.D. 114" commercial, 122" and 134" wheelbase conventional and modified conventional trucks (when four speed transmission specified)

There are multiple indications this engine is not intended for universal carriers in the current assembly. For example: single pulley water pumps, specific crankshaft pulley design, truck type exhaust manifolds. Although missing from your images, and assumed not to have been supplied with the lump, would be the fan mounting style on a bracket below the generator, flat type distributor, coil mounted beside generator. Portions of your hydro-vent assembly have been sheared off.

The wood crate is not original to the engine assembly when exported from Ford Canada. If you examine the method of nailing the boards, and the fact the painted markings show the export in metric weight, it suggests it is one of twenty similar crates being exported from abroad into America.

These engines were discussed on MLU in 2017 when originally offered for sale. See: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d.php?p=245402

[JoshuaCarroll]

Thank you for the immediate response and link to the previous post and yes I bought the last engine from Gene’s Hot Rod Parts in TN.

Does WC 1363 mean anything to anyone? It is clearly stamped on intake surface. War Canada? Water Craft. I have pulled a head and it is 3-1/16 bore so 221 85hp motor. Block casting is beautiful. Head came off very easily without a fight. Pic with head off attached.

[Robin Craig]

Joshua,

By the looks of it you are quite mechanically inclined judging by the background to you photos.

What is he intended end use for the engine? That was my first first thought, I know many of us buy things on a punt but why we do it usually has some kind of mad logic.

Is it a marine application and this is one of a pair?

[Tony Smith]

The C81A heads, 3 1/16 bore, single pulley water pumps and the blue paint all point to these being 85Hp CAR engines. The exhaust manifolds are 21A manifolds, meaning the engine was put together after 1941.

This engine is serial WC1363 and was shipped in crate 13 of 20, the other engine is serial WC1291 in crate 19 of 20. Obviously both of a similar batch built (or re-built?) at around the same time. I'd like to see more of that stencil on the bellhousing, seems to show a workshop and date reference.

The "WC" in the serials does not match a vehicle style serial, and may even refer to "Workshop Checked" or "Conditioned" if these are a rebuilt engine.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Josh,

Nice buy and welcome to MLU! I merged your thread with the earlier one on the same subject.

Regards,
Hanno

[Ron Pier]

It looks to me like 505 W/S (Workshop) which is in New Delhi and Date --11??

Ron

[JoshuaCarroll]

You guys are great! Thank you for merging my thread with the other one. Attached are some more pics. The stencil looks like maybe “CLD” then something “...inhibited”. And lastly “-1- 63”. Looking at the block and inside of water jackets, this thing has to be NOS. Total diamond in the rough. The intake looks exactly like the Universal Carrier motor in this video https://youtu.be/l_Wjej1lmWw

11-inch clutch and truck bellhousing. I had a 1950 Ford F1 pickup truck for 20 yrs that got me hooked on Flatheads.

[JoshuaCarroll]

Sort forgot to mention that 81 was cast into block. Also the block has a forward arrow and “C” stamped on the back passenger side of intake. 4 core plugs in pan rail indicating 1938-40 motor. Intake surface is flat so not likely a 40-41 motor. I think a lot of these early motors went to our Allie British friends before we joined the war.

[Tony Smith]

Canadian production continued on throughout the war and featured many ID points that were discontinued earlier in US-production engines, for example the coreplugs on the lower face of the block. All Canadian engines had the forward oil-fill intake manifold, not just carrier engines.