SMG bracket

[Jack Innes]

Can someone direct me to a picture of the dash on a 1953 M38A1 showing the SMG bracket that I have been told was on some Canadian Jeeps? I have the bracket but none of the holes seem to line up.
Thank you,
Jack

[Wayne Hingley]

Hi Jack. Here is a photo from a 1967:

[rob love]

The location did eventually change, although I would have to look into the modification records to see exactly when. The modifications required the SMG to move from the dash down to the top of the tool box and the 5 pound Ansul fire extinguisher moved from the floor up to the dash. The move was not about making the extinguisher more available...it was about security of the SMG.

[Wayne Hingley]

Rob: regarding the original post, do you know if the "1953" jeeps had the SMG bracket? I can't say there is any evidence of my '53 ever having an SMG mount. Any idea when that bracket may have become standard equipment?

[maple_leaf_eh]

The Canadian 9mm SMG C1 was not in the inventory in 1953. As I recall their year stamps were late 1950s or certainly early 1960s. The bracket would have been ordered installed by higher, after thorough testing and fussing by the RCEME or Ordnance Corps.

[Jack Innes]

Thank you for the information & picture.

Given the dates when the bracket was introduced, the part could have been fitted in service.

My Jeep does not have the 2 holes used to hold the lower end on the bracket as in the picture. I really do not want to start drilling a pretty original dash but did find 2 holes in the bracket that line up with 2 bolts as shown in the picture. The bracket in this position would hold a Sten without interference & a Stirling even better. Could this be a possibility?

[maple_leaf_eh]

The similarity might just be a coincidence. The SMG C1 has a number of protruding parts which constrain how the weapon fits. The 90-deg issue of the mag well and the pistol grip, the cocking handle, the front and rear sights, all dictate which way things fit. I think your location would pretty well dictate mag down and muzzle to the left.

[rob love]

When the installation kits came out for the 1/4 ton M38 and M38A1 trucks, they had the SMG bracket along with the upper and lower brackets for the FN rifles. There was a blueprint included in the kit showing the installation locations for the brackets, which "should" have been followed by the mechanic installing it. I think Brian Asbury has/had those kits at one time so I wonder if he has a copy of the blueprint. I had a copy myself, but not sure if it is buried in my file cabinet of similar documents and UFI.

As to timelines, the FN and SMG were adopted in the latter half of the 50s, and were in service until the about 1990. So certainly the brackets were routinely installed on the early 50s Jeeps as well as the Cdn2 and Cdn3, and the M151A2.

As to the non-approved location of the mounting on your Jeep, there were some mechanics who either knew better than the engineers who drew up such things, or else they just didn't read blueprints. But yes, it is very possible the bracket was located there, especially if the holes line up.

Now the question comes in whether you could have a sten mounted in that bracket. Again, the service dates overlapped, so it would have been entirely possible. The stens were withdrawn over a period of years, and not suddenly.

[rob love]

Jack: looking closer at your photo, it looks like you have merely installed the bracket using the two existing bolts that hold the dash on. In that case, Terry is right...it is just coincidence that the holes line up.

[Jack Innes]

I agree that the holes may line up by co-incidence. A Sten does mount fairly well in this location. The butt stock is in line with the steering column & well out of the way. I have no other option on mag well orientation since this one is welded solid but it too is not in the way of anything as it is. For now if questioned, I am going to blame Bubba or his predecessor.

I would be interested is seeing the prints mentioned though.

Jack

[rob love]

Quite honestly Jack, it is a good enough fit that I'm surprised the engineers didn't adopt it.

I can tell you that the bolts for the normal installation of the extinguisher or SMG bracket on the Cdn2 and Cdn3 were a bugger. The heater ductwork was in that location and made for some very tight fits.