CMP ID and Abbreviations?

[john piercey]

Hi guys can anyone point me to an old post or thread maybe? or may like to start one with regards to all the different terminolgy used on CMP or even other vehicles eg GMC cckw.
Cab pattern 11,12,13?what are the obvious differences?,what,s a FAT,-HUP,-C60 etc seems CMP vehicles have a large number of shortened up terms ,it makes it difficult for me to follow what everything is when im reading all the restoration posts,occasionaly i see someone use the full description and have gleaned some insight from this ,but still seems to be plenty i dont know of.
LWB -SWB,LRDG etc are well known meanings and some are semi self explanatory like Dodge wc57 (weapons carrier) i presume.
Australia has its fair share of CMP stuff but most people know of them mostly as a Chev or Ford Blitz,or commonly known as a bren gun carrier rather than universal carrier (joe public) im referring to here.
An A to Z list would be good just for interests sake ,i realise this could turn in to a monumental task though unless it has already been done.
Cheers John

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello John,

Welcome to MLU!

All good questions and I think very viable for those who are new to the subject of CMPs or has not been immersed in it daily like so many members here.

To give you a start, try reading http://www.mapleleafup.net/vehicles/index.html
Those pages were written by MLU's founder, Geoff Winnington-Ball. He's no longer with us, but still he left his traces so we can follow up in his footsteps.
With that basis, you can start searching on this forum for more information on each of the sub-items.
By the time you've done that, I'm sure you will have gotten other pointers from the MLU membership.

All for now,
HTH,
Hanno

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's a few pages from Military Vehicle Profiles that might help.

[john piercey]

Hanno and Dave,thanks guys ,just what i was looking for.
I have had a quick look at what you have shown me and i must say that i am pretty impressed at what Geoff and others have put together,i will probably have a few hours worth of reading etc tonight.
pattern 12 now makes sense to me as i have heard people over here only refer to them as "monkeyface" blitz,is that also common to describe them as that elsewhere in the world or only something localised here in the penal colonies, FAT also now makes sense ,im sure with further reading other codes and designations will become clearer to me.
Thanks muchly.
john
PS HAPPY NEW YEAR

[chrisgrove]

Hi John
I think you will find that 'monkeyface' is a term generally only used down under (though probably understood elsewhere) and refers to both Cab 11 and Cab 12 which were pretty similar. Happy to be corrected by those more knowledgeable than me.
Chris

[john piercey]

Chris,i thought it may be just an Aussie thing,cheers John

[aj.lec]

Do you have any reference books ?

Clive laws latest "Drive to victory" is available at servicepub https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...42059868,d.dGo

Also "Canadas fighting vehicles" by W A Gregg (no longer in print)

These are good ones to have

I have 2 copies of Canadas fighting vehicles left for sale if required

[Howard]

John,
It won't be long and you'll be all over it and lecturing those that gather around your truck at a car club meeting.
Of course, ask here if there is something you don't understand, and you'll find that on this forum you won't be ridiculed. (Well, not until we get to know each other better.)
The general rules of this forum are "Ask Questions" and "Post Photos"
Cheers
H

[john piercey]

Hi Guys,Andrew what would you want for a copy of that book?
Howard ,yeah i dont have a CMP only the Humber FV 1600 at the moment but due to the seemingly never ending amount of CMPs that crop up around the place it will prob only be a matter of time before some poor old decrepit one follows me home cheers .
John

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by john piercey

due to the seemingly never ending amount of CMPs that crop up around the place it will prob only be a matter of time before some poor old decrepit one follows me home

If CMPs are that plentiful in your area, I suggest you take your time and choose one that is in as good shape as possible with as many of the little fiddly bit remaining as possible. It is surprising how much time, money and frustration you will save if all parts are present and in reasonable condition to start with. That's unless your enjoyment comes from finding or manufacturing parts that have either failed or been lost by the previous owners.

[john piercey]

Hi Grant, im probably making it sound like that there is one every street corner, not quite but they do come up for sale quite regularly,so we must have had thousands at some stage ,they would be the most prolific ex army vehicle (WW2 vintage) still around in unrestored but still being used condition (others would probably argue different).
I dont know how to post it here but Gumtree- western Australia has one on there now for $1200 under Ford blitz CMPV,this is pretty typical of what keeps cropping up in Aust,usually like this with crane type appendages attached.I have seen numerous vehicles in this configuration and cond with no doors,glass etc and generally still just running on 3 or 5 cylinders (testament to the toughness of these old bangers).
Only thing that puts me off a lot of them is the fact that most have had large chunks of angle iron etc welded to their chassis or even shortened to facilitate the fitting of said appendages,which may not go down that well with our Road Transport licencing authorities if ever one got round to being restored and attempted to go back on the road again.
Yes i agree Grant the more complete and unmolested vehicle is the better choice but they are the rarer, harder to find ones which when they do come up command better prices,Aussie farmers and small town engineering firms in earlier times seemed to cut up / modify what was cheap and plentiful, but who cared back then! ,but i will keep my eyes open for that " barn find" hopefully that may crop up.
Cheers John

[Jacques Reed]

Hi John,

Yes, original unmolested vehicles are extremely rare in Australian. In 25 years associated with these vehicles I have only seen a very few come up for sale. Our Canadian cousins seem to have a lot more original trucks but then they have more of the corrosion issues in their climate. Some of ours found inland are quite sunburnt but with sound steel.

I was told many years ago that after the war the government did not want surplus vehicles competing with the car factories getting back to civilian production. For that reason many bodies were removed before being auctioned off and the vehicles were sold as cab-chassis only. Any vehicle that still had a body attached probably saw post-war service and avoided the earlier cull when finally sold off in the fifties or sixties.

Perhaps someone on the forum who likes to dig into the archives can confirm if this was government policy or just a story that was passed on to me. It does seem plausible based on the lack of original bodies and the abundance of home made cranes, and tray trucks. If farmers removed the bodies after the war I would think there would be some lying around at clearing sales- they never throw anything away, and I have never seen any at a sale.

Still, there are a lot of myths out there so perhaps that was just another one.

Cheers,

[Robert Sexton]

Hello all, I would agree with Jacques that barn finds are rare. I have attended as many sales as I can and rarely (if ever) have seen a truck with the original body in the rural areas. I have attached a pic of a C60S that belonged to a neighbor which is as close to original as I have seen,only some mods to make it a firefighting vehicle.It is now under resto.
There were many similar Chevs and Fords in this area used in the timber industry ,mostly fitted with rudimentary cranes,however I have not ever seen one with a body.
I have an ACCO Mk3 that has its original GS body complete with seats and hoops,missing tools and canvas,that truck is the only one I have come across that looks original.
Anecdotally it is said that the canvas and tools were always removed and sold under the lap at the disposal point to make a few bob on the side. It could have been government policy to remove the body but I think it unlikely.
Robert

[john piercey]

Jacques ,yes you could be right re the removal of bodies i have never seen any remnant of what looks to be an orig body on any old CMP.
Years ago i used to deliver farm fuel supplies and got to see what cockys (farmers) had in their little scrap piles under the tree up the back fence,piles of various broken down/old machinery and chunks of steel off something or other that they NEVER throw out or sell,i know ive tried to buy some stuff but they insist they will need it some day to patch up something else with.(they never do!)but then come the day to sell off the farm they have a clearing sale and it all goes relatively cheaply.(my semi sincere apologies to any farmers)
Robert,your unit is what i would consider a good barn find (whether it was in an actual barn or sitting in the middle of a paddock is irrelevent) i think barn find in Australia means more to as somethings overall condition in general than actually being in a barn and would be the "minimum" cond that I personally would consider taking one on as a restoration as it appears to have most bits and pieces still attached( a bit like our Humbers).
John

[Allan L]

Might have some slight relevance re Aussie post war sales of 'complete' mil vehicles:

About 5 years ago, Colin ‘Bluey’ Myers told me this story of his late father N.McL.‘Mac’ Myers who was well known at Eildon in the 50s & 60s for his collection of Jeeps: “In ’45 or ’47 he bought the first army Jeep from the Army, from Melford Motors. You had to have the Jeep without a motor in it; and he went around the back and got the motor and he put it in – they wouldn’t sell you a complete Jeep.”

[john piercey]

Hi Allan, i wouldnt doubt it some of the stuff our govt came up with in the earlier days or even now,i think on the REMLR forums some body tried to get new old stock tank engines v10 or v12s MAN or similar only a few yrs ago as he saw them being carted on a truck when he enquired about them the eventual answer was they had to be destroyed due to the asbestos content(probably only lagging wrapped around exhaust pipe) i think just a case of sheer bloody mindedness,much like the aircraft placed on fire dumps for destruction c47 or dc3 etc thru to at least the 1970s or may be even later.
A lot of campaigning by aviation groups saw some donated to museum groups but it took a hell of a lot of work.
John