For Sale: Very Rounds, reproduction, set of 12

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I had enough material (and patience) to make a spare set of 12 1" Very rounds. These are paper wrapped, plastic and cast resin moulded from an original. Markings are correct. Set of 12 (4 red, 4 white and 4 green) suitable to fill the bin in a tank/armoured car or Bren carrier. A set of originals would be almost impossible to find and live would probably not be a good idea for display. Blond set for sale, $150 plus shipping. Trades, lowballs welcome.

[Robin Craig]

Bruce,

Would this round with those marking have made it into early post war stocks and be credible to see in a post war vehicle?

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

Bruce,

Would this round with those marking have made it into early post war stocks and be credible to see in a post war vehicle?

I can't say for certain but they were throwing WW2 era Mills and 3" mortar bombs well into the late 1960's so I expect so. What I have noticed is the late war (American sourced?) rounds tended to be overall aluminum instead of paper with brass.

[kevin powles]

Pm sent Bruce thanks

[Ed Storey]

Yes, wartime dated Very Cartridges were issued well past 1945.

[Robert Bergeron]

PM sent . Cheers

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I made a few more sets (thanks to everyone who expressed and interest) and have one last set still up for grabs if interested.

[Russell Boaler]

PM sent, thanks

[Neil Ashley]

Post war cartidges were made out of metal. I have number but clearly they must expand on firing as they are just too tight to fit into the pistol.

[Robin Craig]

Bruce was kind enough to PM me but I have just been swamped recently.

I faced the same problem a while a number of years ago and used resin casting as the solution. My thought process was that I only needed to see the butt end inserted into a rack (for a CVRT) and therefore was happy with an incomplete round.

I used model paint to colour the brass end and a light beige for what bit of the body there was. I used children's Plasticine to take up the space and secure the rounds in the bore of the hole in the rack.

I thought I could lay my hands on the completed set but sadly I am wrong, yet again, maybe its an age thing.

My originals were un printed on the sides FYI.

I will want some again in the future and might go another route of CNC turning them in bass wood and painting them as we have done for some rounds we have made.

My thanks to Bruce for the offer.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Neil Ashley

Post war cartidges were made out of metal. I have number but clearly they must expand on firing as they are just too tight to fit into the pistol.

I have seen those post war metal body ones, but I also have photos of 1950 and 1960's dated brass and paper ones with the same maker stamps as the WW2 ones. These are 1-1/2"however. I recall seeing (old, unreliable memory perhaps?) post war paper ones. There is very (pardon the pun) little information out there on these.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I've sold my spare set and am making a few more to fill requests. Going forward I've bought spare material and will make sets on request if there is interest. Custom dates available.

[Robin Craig]

So I finally found the set that I had made. I cant find, yet, the original spent cartridge that the casting was done from and the colours were based on. The colours of the repros are exactly as per the original, and not the same as Bruce's which doesn't mean his or mine are wrong, they are different.

I didn't have time to fiddle around with the plasticine to make the rounds sit perfectly but you get the idea.Bear in mine, mine have been handled a few too may times and some of the paint has chipped.

Hope they illustrate the point

[universalgrl]

Bruce
This is what I have for flare equipment.
The 2 flares I have are for a WW 2 pilots survival vest.

[Rob Abbott]

Bruce sold me a set of cartridges to fill a gap in my collection.
They really are excellent
Rob

[Robin Craig]

Rob Abbott the box in which your rounds are shown, what can you tell us about it please and what vintage vehicle is it going in please?

[Robin Craig]

Finally I found the specimens I had my replicas based on.

I have no expertise in this subject, I throw myself to the learned ones here.

What I can say is what I see or dont.

I picked these two up a long time ago, over 20 years ago in the UK and they followed me home, don't ask.

What I am showing you is what I have and not neccesarily military issue rounds more rounds that fit, so that may be the reason that these cartridges are different and lack all the exterior markings of others.

I find it interesting that the distinctive rolling marks in the end of the cardboard are gone in the spent round.

Over to you all for examination and comment

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Robin, these things seem to have come in a variety of lengths and the one you have is the same length as the ones I made that exactly fit the height of the bins in WW2 Bren carriers and other AFV's. From the pic of the bin you provided earlier (from a Ferret?) it looks like it may have been designed for shorter rounds. Does that make sense? If you used these taller rounds would they rattle around too much?

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

Finally I found the specimens I had my replicas based on.

I have no expertise in this subject, I throw myself to the learned ones here.

What I can say is what I see or dont.

I picked these two up a long time ago, over 20 years ago in the UK and they followed me home, don't ask.

What I am showing you is what I have and not neccesarily military issue rounds more rounds that fit, so that may be the reason that these cartridges are different and lack all the exterior markings of others.

I find it interesting that the distinctive rolling marks in the end of the cardboard are gone in the spent round.

Over to you all for examination and comment

[lssah2025]

Received mine, very nice work, will look good in the Humber and Centaur...

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

Finally I found the specimens I had my replicas based on.

I have no expertise in this subject, I throw myself to the learned ones here.

What I can say is what I see or dont.

I picked these two up a long time ago, over 20 years ago in the UK and they followed me home, don't ask.

What I am showing you is what I have and not neccesarily military issue rounds more rounds that fit, so that may be the reason that these cartridges are different and lack all the exterior markings of others.

I find it interesting that the distinctive rolling marks in the end of the cardboard are gone in the spent round.

Over to you all for examination and comment

"James Pain & Sons of 9, St Mary Axe, London, EC3" Company founded 1850, Firework & ships' signal makers of Mitcham.

1960 - Acquired by Bryant & May.
1964 - amalgamated with Waeco as Pains-Wessex and production moved to Salisbury.
By 1985 was owned by Allegheny International.
1986 Chemring owned them.
Currently owned by Wescom.

So it's a pre-1964 (and probably commercial) signal cartridge, with a rolled crimp like a traditional shotgun cartridge.

I think the cartridge length depends on the number of stars it contains. The standard military sizes were 1-inch and 1.5 inch diameter (and I think are now obsolete, being replaced by 26.5mm). Early cartridges may have been full length brass cases (like early shotgun cartridges), then cardboard with a brass head up to probably the late 1960s and drawn aluminium ones after that. The modern 26.5mm 'Comet' ones seem to be an all-plastic casing.

The Very pistols are illegal to possess in the U.K., being prohibited under section 5 (pistol or short-barreled shotgun) of the Firearms Act.

These days everyone has apparently moved to single-use launchers for distress flares.

https://talesfromthesupplydepot.blog...y/flare-pistol may be of interest.

Chris.

[Robin Craig]

I am genuinely grateful for Chris educating myself and the rest of you by taking the time to post this info.

Bruce my holder is from CVRT stocks and my dummies are just plopped in theire for the photo, when I originally had it i did measure the protrusion and set it up as such, yes they were high in the rack.

I love this hobby and the education I get by being a part of a thread like this. Chris that rabbit hole of a link you put up cracked me up when I thought back to times in the late 70's and 80's when people did unimaginable Tomfoolery with Schermully parachute flares by firing them in the horizontal, how no one ever got killed or maimed is beyond me. thank good there were no cell phones or youtube then.

Bruce I think as I have way to much to get on with right now I will hold where I am on reproduction cartridges but perhaps Chris's link will ebnable you to make some for others, I will get them to contact you off line as they are not from this forum.

Off to see if I can get a ridge cap on my garage today.

[Rob Abbott]

Hi Robin
In answer to your question the Signal Rounds box pictured was, I am told, originally from a Daimler Dingo. That said i can't profess to have seen it come out of the Vehicle so it may ultimately have been from another type.
I had it displayed with my Signals Pistols until I saw a photograph of a wartime ETO SAS Armoured Jeep which seemed to have one bolted to the rear Armoured panel. Again presumably it had originally been in another vehicle and was some form of local unit Modification at the time as I can fine no official reference to wartime SAS Jeeps having them fitted as standard.
That said, all the images I have seen of wartime SAS Jeeps tend to show very individual set ups, based on what began as the "standard".

When I converted one of my Jeeps to the SAS configuration I remembered the photo - so Added my signals box to it.
Hope that helps
Merry Christmas to all
Rob