CDN M37 markings

[Kirk Armitage]

I'm doing a restoration on a 1952 CDN M37 that was surplused out of PET in 1977, CFR NO: 52-41058. I'm the second owner so it was pretty original ,untouched from when it left Petawawa , I know nothing about markings , there are a few, maybe someone can explain what they are.
Passenger door has 91E in black, none on the left as it has a spare tire carrier.
Rht front bumper yellow with the number 2 3 ? (or 8) in white.
Rht windshield has a Canadian Sport Parachuting Assoc sticker, (can't see the previous owner doing this ) , but who knows.
Possible a canadian flag on the right front lip of the hood and the usual antifreeze check on the top of the rad support.
It's a frame off , pretty much a sandblasting / priming funfest at this stage , it will be original except for a Ford Dorset diesel going in and 12v. Fear not the 251 motor from it has been in one of my Bombardiers for 20 plus years, still going strong ,after a recent overhaul.
Thanks K Armitage

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Kirk Armitage

I'm doing a restoration on a 1952 CDN M37 that was surplused out of PET in 1977, CFR NO: 52-41058. I'm the second owner so it was pretty original ,untouched from when it left Petawawa, I know nothing about markings , there are a few, maybe someone can explain what they are.

Having had 25-years of service, your M37 would have been subject to full range of markings, from when the Army was organized as a Division, to the reorganization into Brigade Group and then into Combat Groups. Not to mention being transferred between individual units. So all the markings you can see might be from different eras.

The 91E is most likely the call sign for the vehicle. Without knowing the unit however, it may prove difficult to identify which call sign it is.

I don't believe the CSPA sticker would have been allowed on a military vehicle so may have been placed by the previous civilian owner.

No idea why a bumper would be painted yellow with white numbers. Maybe some one else would have knowledge of this.

The Canadian flag on the front hood lip? More than likely military from later in its career.

Hope this helps.

[Wayne Hingley]

The right side bumper would be where the yellow circle with a 4 bridge class would be located, but the traces of yellow on your bumper doesn't resemble a circular shape.

If there are more white numbers (ex: 2502 or 2503) that would be the ordinance code. M37 with winch is 2503 and without winch is 2502.

One thing I noticed while looking at many old photos and surviving original trucks to determine markings for my M37, is there was a lot of variety in markings, marking location, and paint patterns over the years, across the many different units and in different geographic regions of the country.

[Kirk Armitage]

Dan , Wayne , thanks for the info. I wasn't totally struck on this truck when I bought it in 1993 , but they grow on you. I've been plowing with another M37 for close to 30 yrs.
Regards K Armitage

[Kirk Armitage]

There is a stepped 1/8" plate mounted on the RHT front fender and head light guard , not sure what this mod was for.
Thanks K Armitage

[Wayne Hingley]

Hi Kirk. That would be the mounting plate for the PU-5008/U (chorehorse) generator.

[Kirk Armitage]

Little more sanding managed to pull the CFR# off both doors and Z 11 also on both. A couple letters /numbers in yellow on the passenger door popped up but unreadable. Either way the CFR and Z 11 can go back on after paint , got to get this stuff blasted while the nice weather is here.
K Armitage

[Ed Storey]

As both Dan and Wayne have stated in their previous posts, as you sand down through the various layers of paint history of your vehicle you are discovering a partial selection of markings from various Canadian Forces eras. While you are wise to document what you find, arbitraily selecting what markings to retain and which to leave off really does not add to the authenticity of your vehicle as it is the complete set of markings, from one specific era that tells the story of the vehicles' history. CF vehicle markings is a complicated and technical subject that cannot be explained in one or even two e-mails so I would suggest that you stick with just the CFR number or replicate the photograph that Wayne sent you. You have the CFR of your vehicle, what was it's SN?

[rob love]

Personally, I don't see much wrong with the plan of CFR and the Z11, if you can decipher what the Z11 means. The CFRs were there from the issue of the truck, and somewhere along the line it had the Z11. A bridge class marking, either the yellow circle or the subdued black outline of a circle with the number in the middle was appropriate throughout the trucks history.

The ordnance code on the front bumper was there until the brushes came out with the camoflauge, so that would be fine too.

Tire pressures could be over the wheel wells, although on most I only saw them sprayed on the inside drivers door with a stencil. Although those were on the dash data plate, the recommended pressures did change through the vehicle fleets history.

But I do know what Ed is saying, where too often the vehicles get plastered with every manner of marking, way beyond what was ever seen in service. Too often the siren and beacon soon follow, along with the convoy follows markings, along with some form of personalization onto the cowl sides like a woman's name or a nickname for the truck. Way too much on one vehicle.

The overlap of the Canadian flag pre camoflauge was a very short period. The flag could have been there for the 4 to 10 years of pre-camo, but may not be relevant to the Z11 marking time period. More research would have to be done on that Z11 marking.

[Kirk Armitage]

I was leaning towards the CFR# and the Z11 together as Rob said. This pic credit to ( canadianarmsandarmour.ca ) , shows a 1953 CFR# with a Z10 , so they seem to have existed together. The pic is marked unknown source on the website . Guess the Tire pressure inside of doors and that's about as flashy as it will get , still have a few parts to bolt together before that happens.
K Armitage

[rob love]

You previously showed the generator mount on the fender. That was often an indicator of the truck being fitted with the c42 radio station. There are still brackets for that installation out at the local military scrapyard if you decide to go that route. It does clog up the cargo box a bit mind you.

[Ed Storey]

There were four types of 'signs' painted on wheeled vehicles during the 1950s, 60s and into the early 70s. These were, formation signs (division, brigade, command), arm of service (coloured square with a number-indicates the unit artillery, armour, engineer and so on), battery (used only by the Artillery) and tactical (coloured square with a number); in your case Z11. Your Z11 is a tactical sign and even though you have found a photograph of another M37CDN, in this case one marked to an infantry battalion with Z10, if you look closely at the bumped you will see that the Z10 is on a square with a dark coloured backing which the shadow on the door has obscured int he photograph.

The tactical marking pre-dates the fixed callsign marking of 91E you found on the door, but again if you don't know or understand what it means, then, just like the 91E, you are better off not using it on your restoration. As Rob mentioned in his message, less is better.

[David Dunlop]

Another consideration is the font used for the CFR Number. The original font in use when the Canadian Army took delivery of the M-Series Fleet of vehicles was the Roman style as seen in the two black and white photos of the passenger side door you posted. The green paint used on the M-Series fleet was also a standard, applied by all manufacturers at their factories. I do not know how long the M-Series fleet maintained that green on their vehicles, or theRoman font for that matter, but the body colours did change over time and the CFR Number font eventually changed to the GOTHIC style you have found on your vehicle, and the size began to shrink over time. Locations for the CFR Number were prone to moving around on the vehicle over time as well; some vehicles a little bit, some lot.

So there is a lot to wrap your head arund with regards to what markings go together at any given point in time, where they go, what size and style they were and what background colour was on the vehicle in question. Don't rush the process just for the sake of making a deadline to get the vehicle done.


David

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Another consideration is the font used for the CFR Number. The original font in use when the Canadian Army took delivery of the M-Series Fleet of vehicles was the Roman style as seen in the two black and white photos of the passenger side door you posted.

Hi David. I agree there are at least two different fonts used on the 1950s M-series vehicles (M37, M38, M38A1, M135, etc), but I don't think there was a definite progressive succession from the Times New Roman type of font to the more straight structure font types (what I would call Arial font). My observations suggest both types, maybe more, were used simultaneously from inception of a vehicle into service through to at least the late 1960s. I suspect the font difference was more a function of what 3" stencil cutter was available at the time and location where a vehicle was received.