1938 CMP pics

Darrell Zinck · #1 30-09-05, 21:36

Hi

Busy moving into to Moncton but wanted to share these pics.

Please do not re-produce w/o permission.

Thanx.

regards
Darrell

Darrell Zinck · #2 30-09-05, 21:38

Another.

No PC at home yet so I'll see your comments on Monday.

regards
Darrell

rob love · #3 01-10-05, 01:04

The 1938 date would be an error, you can see the 40 on the doors, which will be the year the truck was produced.
Also, because there are 15cwt 4X4s there, and they have intake louvres, your looking at the latter part of 40 (they didn't start making 15cwt 4x4 until september if I recall) and the photo may possible be early 41.
The snow on the ground would likely limit it to at least November /December if thats in Petawawa; if it were in Manitoba it could be a bit earlier. (We have wet snow and 3 degrees C forecast in a couple of days; it was 22 here today)

Note it is mostly Chevs; the 3rd truck in the top photo is a Ford. Most of the Ford's would have been sent out West because they had a better chance of surviving in the colder climates. At least thats my theory.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #4 01-10-05, 01:06

The top photo shows for example a R.C.D. CMP: a Ford # 11 Cab I think, with a 1940 Canadian census number. They are definitely not the 1938 Chevrolet GS trucks although there could be a 1940 Ford 15-cwt 4 x 2 in there somewhere, i.e. the 50 or so GS Fords that were the immediate predecessors of the CMPs. These also had '40'-prefix numbers, whereas the Chev '38 4 x 2s 'had 38-1-x'

Am I right in saying that there appears to be a #12 Cab in the top photo, 4th truck from left? That would definitely suggest 1941 at least.

Bob Carriere · #5 01-10-05, 05:29

Hi David

Tried enlarging but...... would not a cab 12 have a square hatch on the roof but not on a cab 11???? coild not make out detaild of the alligator nose....

Also were not the "jewel" bumpers only on cab 12.... I could not make any out on that first picture.....

Sure make your mouth water to see them neatly in a row....

Out of curiousity...... doors seem to be left wiiiide open..... again did the straps limiting the travel of the doors occur mainly on cab 12???? makes me wonder if the trucks were not occasionally driven with the doors open..... jeep style..!!!

BoB

rob love · #6 01-10-05, 06:10

I'm pretty sure the RCD marked truck is a Chev; look at the grill guard springs on the bumper, it is the split type. And the one Ford I can spot in the row has the tow rings as part of the bumper mounting brackets instead of the D rings on the bumper.
I know my Cab 11 Ford (serial number F10616 with a 1941 census number) didn't have any limiting straps; there was way too much damage on the door skins from hitting the cargo box.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #7 01-10-05, 13:25

I am sure that the fourth one in, is a Chevrolet and a #12 Cab..I am certain I can see the alligator hood with split radiator.

Pete Ashby · #8 02-10-05, 09:36

David

yes it is a #12 Chev just like mine,

good pictures Darrell thanks for posting them

Pete

Darrell Zinck · #9 03-10-05, 15:14

Hi

Thank you all for your input on these pics. After a bit more looking at the series of photos I received, it would seem that they are not from the same location. I knew that this merry band of experts would pick up any labelling faults with the Regts photos.

Here are a couple more from the same series as the second pic above. Note the old Chev and Ford Armd Cars that have interested dome of you in the past. Pretty sure these are at St John (as it was known then) PQ as the buildings and open spaces match the Units layout of that location back then.

regards
D

Darrell Zinck · #10 03-10-05, 15:15

Another

Darrell Zinck · #11 03-10-05, 15:17

Last one for now

regards
D

Alex Blair (RIP) · #12 03-10-05, 20:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Darrell Zinck
Hi

Thank you all for your input on these pics. After a bit more looking at the series of photos I received, it would seem that they are not from the same location. I knew that this merry band of experts would pick up any labelling faults with the Regts photos.

Here are a couple more from the same series as the second pic above. Note the old Chev and Ford Armd Cars that have interested dome of you in the past. Pretty sure these are at St John (as it was known then) PQ as the buildings and open spaces match the Units layout of that location back then.

regards
D

Hi Darrell.
These pix were probably taken in the spring of '41 after the trials for the two 1935 armoured cars.THis parade was probably as the RCD's were getting ready to go to Camp Borden...The two experimental cars went to Borden with them and stayed with them until the unit was shipped to the UK in November of '41...
The Ford and Chev armoured cars stayed and disapeared from history..probably scrapped..
The Chev is the car with the open door..
It is following the Ford..(What's new..eh,Hanno!)
Roger Lucy has done a great little book published by Clive Law..
Similiars pix of the same parade and same day are in the book..
Great series of books
Weapons of war series..

Bill Murray · #13 03-10-05, 21:07

Boy OH Boy OH Boy
Would I ever like to have one or both of those 35 Ford Phaetons
in my driveway today.
Apparently six years old, they both look almost brand new.
I gather they did not get sent to England/France as I have never seen a pic of them in Europe.
Beute ones from Belgium/Holland/France etc. but never Canadian ones such as these.
Thanks for the photos.
Bill

centurion · #14 03-10-05, 21:19

I'd like to know more about the armoured cars (lorries). I'm working on a book that, amongst other matters, covers improvised armoured cars on bus and lorry chassis. Chevrolet trucks seem to be one of the most popular basis for these in the inter war and early war yearswith vehicles from the UK to the Dutch East Indies (including such places as Trans Jordan) and all over the New World. One of the next most popular is Ford (still following!) These Canadian examples appear to follow a very familiar formula albeit earlier than many others. I'm relatively new to this forum - is there some earlier thread covering these?

nuyt · #15 03-10-05, 21:28

Hello Centurion,

for more info and an abstract of my research on the Chevrolet armoured cars in the DEI look here:

http://www.overvalwagen.com

See also The Overvalwagen Forum for several other armoured cars on civilian chassis...

Kind regards,
Nuyt

Mark W. Tonner · #16 03-10-05, 21:33

Quote:

Originally posted by centurion
I'd like to know more about the armoured cars (lorries).

Roger V. Lucy has just had his book on these published, details of which can be found here. The cover of Roger's book:

Cheers

Alex Blair (RIP) · #17 03-10-05, 22:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Roger V. Lucy has just had his book on these published, details of which can be found here. The cover of Roger's book:

Cheers

Mark is too shy to hype his onw great effort...
Nice job Mark..I see more down the line..Great references..All of Clives authors are great..

Mark W. Tonner · #18 03-10-05, 22:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Mark is too shy to hype his onw great effort...
Nice job Mark..I see more down the line..Great references..All of Clives authors are great..

Psst, Alex .... he asked about armoured cars, not armoured personnel carriers........

David_Hayward (RIP) · #19 03-10-05, 23:06

I re-checked my information :

Quote:

Lieut. Jolley then drew up a list of all 15 cwt. trucks or equivalent that were to be replaced by new trucks, traded-in, retained for schools or for instructional purposes. The oldest was a 1928 Model Durant Coach. There was also a 1929 Chevrolet LQ stake truck, a 1934 Chevrolet Light Delivery, plus two Chevrolet pickups and a 1½ ton stake truck, all 1934 Models. There were eight Crossley Staff Cars to be sent to schools, otherwise all others were Fords: 1931 to 1936 Models, 2-Ton stake trucks, Station Wagons or Phaetons. Ten 1936 Ford 2-Ton trucks were to be retained, to be supplemented by the new 15 cwt Trucks. ….a further three were required for the Light Car Reconnaissance troop of the L.S.H. Regiment, to replace three 1936 Ford Phaetons

There were several 1938 Chevrolets allocated to D Coy, RCR at St John, PQ from 1938...Z 38-1-27/29/29/30 and 31 whereas B Coy, RCD in Toronto had Z 38-1-5/6/7/8. I wonder if any of these were retained in RCR and RCD service in 1941

david moore · #20 03-10-05, 23:27

Wonderful pictures. Can anyone who can see the originals and get a little better clarity than I can, please list the 40-1-???? numbers for my database?

David Moore

Bill Murray · #21 04-10-05, 00:45

David Hayward:

If you please, any photos???
Bill

David_Hayward (RIP) · #22 04-10-05, 09:03

Sorry Bill, never seen any photos before, but they must surely exist? Sounds like another research task for me.

Col Tigwell · #23 04-10-05, 10:20

It is good to see, that in this forum that people believe in an interest, so strongly, that they put their money up, so that people who have the interest, can read and study more.

It is not for the money, because I suspect it takes a long time for one to even break even, let alone make a profit.

To those who produce books, DVD's etc I say thanks, long after the products involved are parked in museums, we have the chance to see what really went on.

We have a guy down here, a brillerant aviation Historian, who morgaged his home to produce his first book. I said to his wife you are very brave people, her reply was that I would always support him, and would also believe in what he thinks needs to be done.

A big thank you, because without people like Mark, our history would quickly disappear, as we all came to attention, for the last big march.

Regards
Col Tigwell

Alex Blair (RIP) · #24 04-10-05, 14:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Psst, Alex .... he asked about armoured cars, not armoured personnel carriers........

Mark....
When you refered to Roger Lucy,you referenced his book...
When I posted my posting..I refered to YOUR book....
Believe it or not,as an ex "Blue job" I do know the difference between armoured cars and armoured carriers,but in neither posting were these mentioned..Our postings were about books...

Mark W. Tonner · #25 04-10-05, 15:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Believe it or not,as an ex "Blue job" I do know the difference between armoured cars and armoured carriers

Hi Alex;

... I knew that, I was just pulling your leg, because the original question was about armoured cars (which Roger's covers), and my own deals with the other....didn't mean to offend, it was just a small joke......

Cheers

Alex Blair (RIP) · #26 04-10-05, 15:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Hi Alex;

... I knew that, I was just pulling your leg, because the original question was about armoured cars (which Roger's covers), and my own deals with the other....didn't mean to offend, it was just a small joke......

Cheers

Hi Mark...
No Offence taken..
As an old ex Warrant officer blue job,I'm not used to meeting (someone like myself)...humble,intelligent,knowlegable,interesti ng,humourous brown jobs.
Your work is first class...top cabin...
Hopefully there is more to come from you...
(This posting should get a rise from you know who...)

Gunner · #27 04-10-05, 17:42

There is rumour of the hull of one of these in a scrap yard near Picton... its is being cleared as we speak.

Darrell Zinck · #28 04-10-05, 20:55

Hi

Glad to help.

Ref the pics; they are scans of RCD originals (and I have their reference #'s for the pics I've posted) by the RCD Archives. They have, unfortunately, gone through a complete turnover of staff and the new fellow is rather swamped. The scans are courtesy of George Wallace, Mike Maczko and (I believe) Dave Harbour. They are all gone from either the Regt, Military or Petawawa now and the new Cpl is starting fresh.

That being said, I can try and ask him to send me bigger (and therefore clearer) scans of this series. No promises as I don't want to unduly influence his work-load but I can at least try. Wait, out.

I did find one of an earlier time with the door #'s a bit clearer.

Please recall that no reproduction is permitted without the Regt's permission.

regards
D

Bill Murray · #29 04-10-05, 22:43

My Bad:
I jumped too soon and having seen the door marking "36" on the last photo I went back and enlarged the earlier ones and the Ford Phaetons are 1936 models, not 1935.
Equally as desirable, so no harm no foul.
Bill