can anyone ID this piece of Engineer kit?

[sapper740]

In my search to learn all things Engineer I came upon this interesting picture of R.C.E.'s at work clearing rubble in Caen. the picture was taken in August of 1944. There are two vehicles I haven't identified in the picture. One, the "Steam Shovel" I've seen pictures of but have never ID'ed fully. However, I have never seen before the small dump "truck" that it is loading. Has anyone seen this piece of kit before, know what it is, and if it was on any Canadian unit's T.O.& E.?

[kevinT]

I hope this link works.

http://www.accurate-armour.com/ShowP...5&product=1164

Cheers
Kevin

[Grant Bowker]

Think of it as an overgrown, powered, ride-on wheelbarrow rather than as a small dump truck. I would guess by the style of this one that it is sourced from UK production rather than North American, but could easily be wrong. This type of equipment still exists, in my experience used almost exclusively on a job site rather than for hoad haulage (even very short distance).

[sapper740]

Originally posted by kevinT
I hope this link works.

http://www.accurate-armour.com/ShowP...5&product=1164

Cheers
Kevin

Thanks Kevin, that looks like it: The Ruston/Bucyrus 17/19 crawler/excavator. I've seen pictures of it before but had never taken the time to identify it. I'm going to research it to see if it was ever issued to Canadian units. Any ideas on the other?

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Grant Bowker
Think of it as an overgrown, powered, ride-on wheelbarrow rather than as a small dump truck. I would guess by the style of this one that it is sourced from UK production rather than North American, but could easily be wrong. This type of equipment still exists, in my experience used almost exclusively on a job site rather than for hoad haulage (even very short distance).

I've seen the modern equivalent of this piece of equipment on construction sites I've been on. Last one was Terminal "D" at DFW airport in 2004, 'though it was much smaller. The one in the pic looks to be fairly robust with a capacity of perhaps a yard or two of earth. The larger tyres look like something you'd put on a farm tractor. Hopefully someone will come up with a name or designation for it. Derek.

[Gunner]

Hi Derek: nope, not suffering from dyslexia that's Classic Plant and Machinery Magazine a sister to Classic Military Vehicles Magazine and nuttin' to do with CMPs's: http://www.cpmmag.co.uk/

The Brits call 'em 'skips' or self propelled skips or the X!da@!4!r67%!R&$!!! damn machine!

Anyway, the CPM guys will likely be able to help you out as there is actually alot of restored ex military plant out there.

Cheers and UBIQUE! Mike

P.S: Dyslexics of the world UNTIE! We'll have more fnu that way!

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Gunner
Hi Derek: nope, not suffering from dyslexia that's Classic Plant and Machinery Magazine a sister to Classic Military Vehicles Magazine and nuttin' to do with CMPs's: http://www.cpmmag.co.uk/

The Brits call 'em 'skips' or self propelled skips or the X!da@!4!r67%!R&$!!! damn machine!

Anyway, the CPM guys will likely be able to help you out as there is actually alot of restored ex military plant out there.

Cheers and UBIQUE! Mike

P.S: Dyslexics of the world UNTIE! We'll have more fnu that way!

Well, I'll be! They have a magazine for everything these days! I'll do a google search on skips and see what I come up with.

By the yaw, I oot used to eb dyslexic, tub won I'm KO!

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by sapper740
Well, I'll be! They have a magazine for everything these days! I'll do a google search on skips and see what I come up with.

Derek,

I have had a lot of experience with "C" vehicles used by the RE and would put that machine down as an Aveling-Barford. There was also one made by Muir-Hill, which I think were base on running gear of the Fordson Standard tractor. Incidentally, skips are something else, these vehicles are known as Dumpers, where as the much larger versions would be dumptrucks.

(A skip in UK is an open container with hoooks on the side to be loaded on a specially equipped truck)

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
Derek,

I have had a lot of experience with "C" vehicles used by the RE and would put that machine down as an Aveling-Barford. There was also one made by Muir-Hill, which I think were base on running gear of the Fordson Standard tractor. Incidentally, skips are something else, these vehicles are known as Dumpers, where as the much larger versions would be dumptrucks.

(A skip in UK is an open container with hoooks on the side to be loaded on a specially equipped truck)

Richard, you're the man! I've just spent a very long hour looking on line at Aveling- Barfords and Muir-hills and I found this little piece of kit, the Muir-Hill 562. However, the only pictures I could find on-line were of the Matchbox series of toys, but one can see the obvious similarity to WWII picture taken in Caen. The two pieces of equipment are virtually identical. If this toy isn't the exact model, it's very close. Thanks for the help. I'll continue to look for more info on this model. Derek.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by sapper740
Richard, you're the man! I've just spent a very long hour looking on line at Aveling- Barfords and Muir-hills and I found this little piece of kit, the Muir-Hill 562. However, the only pictures I could find on-line were of the Matchbox series of toys, but one can see the obvious similarity to WWII picture taken in Caen. The two pieces of equipment are virtually identical. If this toy isn't the exact model, it's very close. Thanks for the help. I'll continue to look for more info on this model. Derek.

STOP THE PRESSES!

The model 562 isn't quite the same as the one in the pic so I used the Dogpile search engine and VIOLA! (wait a minute, isn't that a musical instrument?) I mean VOILA! here's the real McCoy, no model number but the website called this a 1938 Muir-Hill dumper. This one looks exactly like the one in the Caen pic.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

You guys scare me sometimes....

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by sapper740
STOP THE PRESSES!

here's the real McCoy, no model number but the website called this a 1938 Muir-Hill dumper. This one looks exactly like the one in the Caen pic.

Derek,

Look closely at that model, it is the one based on the Standard Fordson (as it is known generally over here), the driving position has been moved to one side and turned around.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
You guys scare me sometimes....

I know what you mean Jefe, the wealth of information that the varied members of MLU bring to your website never ceases to astound me. I could have made a career out of looking for information on that obscure little piece of kit I found in the background of a fuzzy 63 year old picture, but one short inquiry on MLU and Volante!, there pops up the answer. Ya gotta luv it!


P.S., I've thought of another suffix to add after your name by your avatar:

OKW (OberKommandoWebsite)

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
Derek,

Look closely at that model, it is the one based on the Standard Fordson (as it is known generally over here), the driving position has been moved to one side and turned around.

That's what got me thinking Richard. In the first picture I posted, the model 562, had the driver facing away from the dump box and on the other side. I knew that wasn't correct, but it was close. A further search allowed me to find the earlier model which had the operator correctly oriented. Of, course, I would never had found either pic without knowing where to start my search. Your knowledge of R.E. "C" vehicles helped immensely. Thank you. Derek.

[Les Freathy]

AH the world of plant, after nearly 40 years in the trade i thought i had kicked it in the arse. On a serious note i did in my time make efforts to beg steal and borrow all i could on old plant equipment in military and civilian use so i hope the following will answer a few questions
Dereks offer of the old Dinky Muir hill is based on the following illustration, it is the model 14B first built in the very early 1950s, when i was at the tender age of 16 i had a job working for a beach quarry on the Romney Marsh, if i say it was a karnos army out fit i would near the truth and was given the job of driving one of these to start with the revolving seat mechanism had to be welded as it was almost none exsistant and once loaded it had no brakes and i was informed whilst in motion to use a sand pile to stop. Great days eh!

[Les Freathy]

The dumper in your photo is indeed a Muir Hill 2cu yd skip model as seen in this factory shot awaiting delivery to the army

[Les Freathy]

And heres a flock of 2 and 3 and a half cu yd dumpers being rounded up for essential wartime work

[Les Freathy]

And if you think they are ugly b------s take a look at the other two in this photo

[Les Freathy]

This shot is just post war but gives an indication of the design of the 2 yd dumper

[Les Freathy]

Dont ask, mr moderater can you remove it please it should have been this one

[Les Freathy]

and finally the 19RB seen here in the crane role as used by the Roal Engineers for bridging, as to the question did the Canadians use any of the kit i would say certainly whilst based in the UK but who knows if any of the kit was taken to Europe, food for further thought and photographic evidence
Cheers
Les

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Les Freathy
Dont ask, mr moderater can you remove it please it should have been this one

Nope... I think a few here will appreciate the pic of the portee!

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Les Freathy
And if you think they are ugly b------s take a look at the other two in this photo

Les, the little one is beautiful in comparison, especially to the one on the right!

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

OK, you sapper nutbars, we've established the ID of the wee dumper, find us the Steam Shovel! Mike Mulligan, where are you?

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Les Freathy
and finally the 19RB seen here in the crane role as used by the Roal Engineers for bridging, as to the question did the Canadians use any of the kit i would say certainly whilst based in the UK but who knows if any of the kit was taken to Europe, food for further thought and photographic evidence
Cheers
Les

Les, Jefe simply doesn't appreciate the finer things in life, such as the banging, heavy-lifting, sweating, building, knuckle-bashing, muddy, hot, dangerous, toe-squishing, up-building, down-blowing, cratering, excavating, rafting, river crossing, water purifying, mine laying, bridge-building, entanglement building, road clearing, explosive disposing, barbed-wiring, beer drinking, bunker blowing, bleeding, skirt-chasing, airborne jumping, Kraut-killing, sacrificing world of the Engineers.

Thanks for the pics and info regarding plant used by the R.E.'s and most likely R.C.E.'s. I've noticed a difference in the RB 19 in my pic and the RB 19 in your pic, due I assume to the difference tasks they are engaged in. In the Caen pic the RB 19 has a short, solid framed arm with a shovel whereas the crane in your pic has a long skeleton arm. One obviously used for digging, the other for lifting items such as bridge panels.
Now, to muddy the waters a little more, here are a couple of pics from an American Combat Emgineer battalion using a different crane altogether:

First pic is taken at the Thatcham depot prior to D Day.

[sapper740]

Here's an American crane loading a DUKW. Any ideas on the make?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by sapper740
Les, Jefe simply doesn't appreciate the finer things in life, such as the banging, heavy-lifting, sweating, building, knuckle-bashing, muddy, hot, dangerous, toe-squishing, up-building, down-blowing, cratering, excavating, rafting, river crossing, water purifying, mine laying, bridge-building, entanglement building, road clearing, explosive disposing, barbed-wiring, beer drinking, bunker blowing, bleeding, skirt-chasing, airborne jumping, Kraut-killing, sacrificing world of the Engineers.

Heathen swine, what part of beer drinking, skirt chasing and airborne jumping did you not understand? Sappers, sheesh...

Now build me a Bailey Bridge and then let's get pissed and go blow something up...

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by sapper740
Thanks for the pics and info regarding plant used by the R.E.'s and most likely R.C.E.'s. I've noticed a difference in the RB 19 in my pic and the RB 19 in your pic, due I assume to the difference tasks they are engaged in. In the Caen pic the RB 19 has a short, solid framed arm with a shovel whereas the crane in your pic has a long skeleton arm. One obviously used for digging, the other for lifting items such as bridge panels.

I don't think the original pic is an RB 19... the steam shovel body in the original pic looks longer.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by sapper740
Here's an American crane loading a DUKW. Any ideas on the make?

Derek,

The track frame looks like RB (Ruston Bucyrus), but the cab being on the right, I always put down to being of British origin and the cab and body pattern looks like one from the early 1950's. Do you know where the picture was taken?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by sapper740
In the Caen pic the RB 19 has a short, solid framed arm with a shovel whereas the crane in your pic has a long skeleton arm.

Derek,

The 19-RB working in Caen is rigged as a face shovel, notice the door on the back of the bucket is open to discharge. With another jib it could be used as a dragline.

Jif and his "steam shovel" .....the only time it would steam would be if the coolant level was low.