portee crew

Dick Wheat · #1 20-02-07, 22:02

Hi could someone tell me how many men made up the crew on a 2pdr chev portee. I have seen on the photos of the NZ restored portee either 2 seperate seat or bench seat and driver seat, the one i have as an extra seat next to the driver on the outside made in the same stile as the bench seat any thoughts Cheers Dick

cletrac (RIP) · #2 21-02-07, 00:19

Any photos I've seen there's four men in the picture.

Dick Wheat · #3 21-02-07, 01:17

Hi thanks for the photo, the one i had in mind was with the gun pointing forward with the tilting loading frame, sorry should have said. Cheers Dick

David Ellery · #4 21-02-07, 06:47

Hi Dick, The Chev Portees which came to NZ only have seating for 3 crew up front, driver and 2 passengers on a bench seat, and they would have had to be real friendly with the lack of leg room! As for seating in the rear I don't know as so far no original portee tipping tray has survived here. If there was seating it would have to be between the pivoting ramps at the extreme rear as fuel tanks, winch gear and the gun itself wouldn't leave enough room up front. The Chev Portees used the same rear tray set up as the Morris C8/AT Portee so if any are existing in the Uk that will be your best bet. Hope that is of help. Cheers David...

Dick Wheat · #5 21-02-07, 19:46

Hi thanks David for the reply.Hanno i thought you also sent a reply, I answered one must be older than I thought ,seeing things, in the reply i said that what I possibly should be looking at is the difference between the amount of men in a portee and 17 pdr gun tractor as i belive mine is the conversion, the extra seat may have been required (although very cramped )for another man.the back being very small due to the petrol tanks being behind the cab and the amount equipment would also taken up a large amount space . The answer I now need is how many men in a 17pdr crew cheers Dick

David Ellery · #6 21-02-07, 21:10

Dick , dug this up this morning out of all the hoohaa I had collected when gathering info on AT Portees, its from a article in Wheels & Tracks no 30. The article relates to Morris Portee conversions to 17 pdr tractors, but mentions Chev Portees as well. " Many of the portees,predominately the un-issued and little used ones, were subsequently converted to prime movers for the new towed 17 pdr gun. This entailed a revised body, non pivoting and without the hand winch. The canvas cover and hence the general appearance was similar to the original.The cab, extended on the drivers side, now seated four and there were another four seats in the rear . The latter were fitted in pairs, back to back at the sides of the body,the two rear seats facing rear. The centre of the body was kept clear for ammo ( 30 rounds) and there was a low tailboard. The spare wheel was mounted inside at the front of the body. ( The CMP Chevrolet CGT-based portee was similarily converted),. " A bit more info towards your project , heres a pic of my Chev Portee with NZ conversion GS tray. cheers David..

Dick Wheat · #7 21-02-07, 23:19

Hi David great info and picture, my portee is fitted with pto winch same as the ones in the gun tractor,there is steel plate step fixed to the back of the cab so you can step from the cab straight into the back.To do this the canvass must have been at its origanal hight, so i have taken it for granted they kept the frame and made the hight of the sides of the new body to suit. The step is slightly wider than the tanks. The ammo box and tool box are on the sides below the body. Tried to send photo but made a mess of it bit of a dinosaur when it comes to these things. If the weather is good this weekend will take some photos and ask Pete to post them.Cheers Dick

Hanno Spoelstra · #8 22-02-07, 16:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Dick Wheat
Hanno i thought you also sent a reply, I answered one must be older than I thought ,seeing things, in the reply i said that what I possibly should be looking at is the difference between the amount of men in a portee and 17 pdr gun tractor as i belive mine is the conversion, the extra seat may have been required (although very cramped )for another man.the back being very small due to the petrol tanks being behind the cab and the amount equipment would also taken up a large amount space . The answer I now need is how many men in a 17pdr crew

Hi Dick, it's not your age but the platform to run this forum needing an upgrade. I did post a reply, so did you, but after a couple of hours the server or database was reset, thereby losing several hours of work

What I said it that as far as I know the 2-pdr gun portee consists of four men: gun commander, layer, loader, and driver. The same must be true for the 17-pdr AT gun.

If and when you have the time, I look forward to those pictures of your chev portee.

Regards,
Hanno

Dick Wheat · #9 22-02-07, 18:21

Hi thanks for putting my mind at rest. Hope to get up some photos as soon as i can take some up to date ones, but weather not to good at moment could be few days.Cheers Dick

Mark W. Tonner · #10 22-02-07, 20:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Dick Wheat
answer I now need is how many men in a 17pdr crew cheers Dick

Dick/Hanno;

Don't know if this helps, but the standard 'gun detachment' for the 2pdr and 17pdr A/T guns were:

2pdr A/T gun: (Total: 5 man detachment)

Number 1 - gun commander
Number 2 - loader
Number 3 - layer
Number 4 - ammunition number
Number 5 - ammunition number

Seating on a 2pdr 'portee':

1 and 5 beside the driver (5 nearest the driver)
3 on the gun seat
2 on the near side rear seat
4 on the offside rear seat

17pdr A/T gun (towed): (Total: 7 man detachment)

Number 1 - gun commander
Number 2 - loader
Number 3 - layer
Number 4 - 2i/c and link number
Number 5 - LMG gunner and sentry
Number 6 - ammunition number
Number 7 - ammunition number

Cheers

Dick Wheat · #11 22-02-07, 21:49

Hi a brilliant job thanks, between you lads i think the i have now most of the answers, makes the reason why things are situated where the are more understandable. could you tell me what are your thoughts on the fact that a winch was rquired on a gun tractor but not on most portee conversions. many thanks Dick

Tony Smith · #12 23-02-07, 15:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Dick Wheat
Could you tell me what are your thoughts on the fact that a winch was rquired on a gun tractor but not on most portee conversions. many thanks Dick

The 2pdr is a quite light and manoeverable artillery piece, easily emplaced and rotated by hand. A hand winch on the vehicle is required for embussing the piece back on the vehicle. The 25pdr and 17pdr are much heavier guns and while it is possible to manoevre them on firm, flat ground by the gun crew, once you are on hilly, rocky or muddy ground, a power winch on the vehicle makes life so much easier.

Pete Ashby · #13 26-02-07, 22:29

Posted for Dick Wheat

Pete Ashby · #14 26-02-07, 22:41

Posted for Dick Wheat

Dick Wheat · #15 27-02-07, 01:06

Hi David the two photos put on by Pete show on one the winch and the other the step frame from the cab to the back i mentioned before, Cheers Dick

David Ellery · #16 27-02-07, 20:28

Hi Dick , good to see some pictures of your project , would be nice to have a winch fitted to my Portee, as I got it nice and stuck recently in a small swamp on a friends farm. The step you mention on the back of the cab , my Portee must have been fitted with the same as the mounting holes are in the same place as yours. Question did the 2pdr winch bolt up to this bracket as well ? Anyway keep the pictures coming please. Thanks David...

Dick Wheat · #17 28-02-07, 00:27

Hi David the only photos i can find are now 4years old having moved to house with a much smaller shed I had to remove the window screen to get It in. Repair to the house came first but now I have a little time for the truck. the bolt holes I think were for the winch and reused for the step. The rounded wind deflector panels for the 2 extra seats on my truck are full of holes which held at least 3 fire extinguishers it seems to have small bolt holes all over the cab for one use or another. Here Is 3 old photos will send more when weather permits me to remove from shed Cheers Dick

Dick Wheat · #18 28-02-07, 00:31

Another one

Dick Wheat · #19 28-02-07, 00:36

the third, we dinosaurs keep trying

David Ellery · #20 28-02-07, 01:52

Thanks Dick for the pics, nice to see that your chassis and running gear are in such good order. My chassis was so rotten that when I started to strip it large parts of it came away. Fortunately a FAT chassis turned up which saved the day. Have you rebuilt the engine? My truck had sat in a lean to for 15 years before I got it home. I have not touched the engine internals at all apart from new gaskets where needed, cleaned and rebuilt the starter motor, distributer,carb etc, even the air cleaner still retains the original horse hair for filtration. Fired the engine up 3 years ago and she's still running strong. If you don't have the metal wind shields that bolt to the top of the mud guards, let me know as I have a paper pattern here which I can post up to you. Keep up the good work, cheers David...

Dick Wheat · #21 28-02-07, 16:25

Hi David the engine had alot of money spent on the bottom end by a previous owner. When I got the truck we had to strip it again as the rest of it had been put together gus to get it running many bolts missing and we strip all the timming gears and replace, new all gaskets alround plus other bits. The deflectors are ok, thanks for the offer of the templates. This truck was bought from the military and used a tow truck by small garage spending most of its life in a open lean to till it was bought in1980. I have a photo of it in poor condition stood in the lean to, the photo is very dark and old if I can improve it I will try to post it .With the rain still coming down and making space I have tied to take few photos, the truck as been sprayed with wax oil all over knowing it would have to stand along time with out work. Cheers Dick

Dick Wheat · #22 28-02-07, 16:29

Photo 2

Dick Wheat · #23 28-02-07, 16:34

photo 3

Dick Wheat · #24 28-02-07, 16:38

photo 4

Dick Wheat · #25 01-03-07, 00:12

Hi David not very good photo but here it is

Pete Ashby · #26 01-03-07, 19:37

Nice one Dick,

good to see you have got the hang of posting pictures

regards

Pete

David_Hayward (RIP) · #27 01-03-07, 19:46

1.

"New Zealand 2-pdr anti-tank gun mounted on a truck in the portee role, 3 December 1941"

2.

"A 6-pdr anti-tank gun semi-armoured portee, camouflaged to look like an ordinary lorry, 27 October 1942" : I am trying to decide what's under the covers!

3.

"Men of 2nd Battalion Essex Regiment load a Hotchkiss 25mm SA 34 anti-tank gun onto the back of a Bedford MWG Portee, Meurchin, 27 April 1940."

Dick Wheat · #28 01-03-07, 19:58

Hi did they use captured trucks as portees the width of the tyres look large on no2 photo the grill and stone gaurd look unusual. Cheers Pete the dinosaurs will get there in the end (with a bit of help) Thanks Dick

Grant Bowker · #29 01-03-07, 20:56

Subject to correction, I think this is AEC Matador based. The Matador has always struck me as having larger section tires than most lorries of the period. The grill sems to me to be painted rather than open and the "stone guard" is probably a deflector to aid air intake from the bottom below the armour plate in front of the actual radiator.

Les Freathy · #30 01-03-07, 21:19

You are correct Grant it,s a Matador most likely a 6pdr deacon underneath the gowns
Les