Ford Wreck in the Desert (2)

Kuno · #1 03-11-07, 15:17

The FORD wreck in the below pictures confuses me completely. First of all it is placed at a very remote spot, far a way from any normal units presence during WW2 and it shows some tyical LRDG-signs as the removed cabin and the brackets for the sandladders on the mudguards...

...but I have never seen such vehicle in LRDG-service at all.
...and what about the roundel on the bonnet?

Who can identify the type and who might know something more about vehicles as this is one?

Kuno · #2 03-11-07, 15:22

E:

F:

G:

nuyt · #3 03-11-07, 19:27

The Ford might be a French one. Leclercs units in Northern Africa used several types of rhd Canadian Chevrolets, Bedfords and Fords of various model years. Many were converted into LRDG style vehicles an had roundels on the hoods/bonnets.

Didier Corbonnois'LÓdyssee de la Colonne Leclrec has some pics.

As far as I can deduct from the book, the Ford trucks (including Canadian Ford 41) were used mainly in the two Fezzan raids in Tripolitania in 1942-43. Where did you find the truck? The descriptions of the raids in this book are fairly well detailed...

Richard Farrant · #4 03-11-07, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by ericnuyt
The Ford might be a French one. Leclercs units in Northern Africa used several types of rhd Canadian Chevrolets, Bedfords and Fords of various model years. Many were converted into LRDG style vehicles an had roundels on the hoods/bonnets.

Eric,

Would the French have used roundels in the "British" configuration, ie blue outer ring and red centre? The French air force roundel was opposite with red outer ring.

Just wondering

nuyt · #5 03-11-07, 19:59

Judging from the darker interior cricle in the roundel on the b/w pics in the book, yes, they did! Possibly because they were part of the Allied army anyway and the RAF was master in the sky over Africa and because they often operated with LRDG units...?

Richard Farrant · #6 03-11-07, 21:07

Quote:

Originally posted by ericnuyt
Judging from the darker interior cricle in the roundel on the b/w pics in the book, yes, they did!

OK Eric,

That makes sense, to keep a uniform recognition symbol.

Kuno · #7 03-11-07, 21:59

The wreck is actually not in the area of French activites but near Tazerbo. However will check the mentioned book. If this truck is of "french origin" it would be really an interesting wreck and give an indication that they had made "expeditions" far into the North...

However; the basis of that vehicle would have been KUFRA then.

....what makes me thinking about another FORD wreck of probably the same type further SE of KUFRA.

Thanks for the hint!

Kuno · #8 03-11-07, 22:08

...have checked said book and found trucks of similar type on pages 72 and 141. However; both pictures presented trucks with complete cabin and the "LRDG"-style brackets for sand-ladders were as per my knowledge not used by the french.

nuyt · #9 04-11-07, 01:20

Hi Kuno, the pic on page 141 shows a cut down cab Ford 41, doors still there, but these could have been taken from the wreck just like the body and other stuff.

Kufra was taken by French/LRDG troops....

About the brackets: both LRDG and Free French were forces not working by the book when it came to equipment.

So, why could not have been there a French truck with "British"brackets, or a LRDG unit briefly taking over a French Ford...?

Kuno · #10 04-11-07, 14:35

Everything is possible in the desert

nuyt · #11 04-11-07, 16:21

ok, lets drink to that then

Kuno · #12 10-11-07, 08:17

Let us drink on it - just have left the country for a short stay in Europe, where the beer is better

Kuno · #13 20-11-07, 10:44

@ ericnuyt; the French - as per my knowledge- did not remove the doors. See as well the photos of the Chevy-Wreck I had posted earlier this year. Would agree that the doors etc. had been removed later on...

Does anybody have some references showing the same type of FORD in the "LRDG-Style"-Version?

cliff · #14 20-11-07, 11:30

From the 3rd photo it is easy to see that this vehicle is a flat faced cowl unit and did not have doors and a cab as such like a normal full steel cab. Local, wooden framed bodies were normally built for this type of vehicle which were a common type of truck export at the time.

in Bart Vanderveen's the Observers Fighting Vehicles Directory WW2 (revised edition) page 88 lower LH corner it shows a 1.5 ton 4X2 cargo (Ford E018T) assembled in England with British GS body with a similar looking 15cwt version built as well. It also says many militarised Ford 4X2 vehicles saw service in North Africa.

Having a Timber body (cab and rear) is probably why it is non existant now due to being used for firewood over the years.

Kuno · #15 21-11-07, 13:12

@ Cliff; this is interesting news. Indeed, firewood is a very rare article in that region. I remember many barbed-wire fences dating back to WW2 which are still on place - but the woden poles have been (carefully) removed.

Would it be possible to send me a scan of the picture you have mentioned above?

cliff · #16 21-11-07, 19:52

Here is a scan from Barts Book.

Kuno · #17 22-11-07, 07:07

Thanks, Cliff. That looks very good!

cliff · #18 22-11-07, 07:19

This one has the doors but I am betting that some of these flat faced cowl unit Fords ended up being built similar to the (normal) LRDG Chevrolet you see a lot of photos of without doors.

Kuno · #19 22-11-07, 07:39

...even on your above picture one gets the impression that the doors were not fixed "for ever"; looks like they could easily fall off.

cliff · #20 22-11-07, 09:50

Kuno if you look carefully at your photo B (third from top) especially the LHS door pillar. At the top are two holes where the bracket the same as the one showing on the opposite side is missing. Apart from those holes there is no indication of other fixing places for hinges and to me those top brackets may have been the clip to hold a canvas safety strap which some doorless vehicles had.

cliff · #21 22-11-07, 10:10

Here is an RAAF version of the Ford. Photo is from the AWM data banks and captioned "LIBYA. 1941-12. NO. 3 SQUADRON, RAAF"

Kuno · #22 22-11-07, 10:56

Cliff. I think that we come closer and closer. (I start to like the Australians!)

---

If I am not wron, Australians were employed in "deeper" regions of the desert as well - for example during the siege of GIARABUB.

cliff · #23 22-11-07, 19:54

Yes you are correct my friend. Us Aussies were everywhere man!

Kuno · #24 22-11-07, 21:18

...terible people; therefore they have been sent once to the most remote island in the whole empire (and then they use every chance - as wars- to come back).

nuyt · #25 24-11-07, 01:13

The RAAF Ford pic is interesting, but the problem with the Ford E018T is that it was a US Ford assembled in Britain with lhd. Our desert wreck is rhd!
The same Vanderveen book mentions a rhd Australian Ford 01T on page 214, which must be the truck on the picture Cliff provided and not the E018T...

cliff · #26 24-11-07, 03:15

Quote:

Originally posted by ericnuyt
The RAAF Ford pic is interesting, but the problem with the Ford E018T is that it was a US Ford assembled in Britain with lhd. Our desert wreck is rhd!
The same Vanderveen book mentions a rhd Australian Ford 01T on page 214, which must be the truck on the picture Cliff provided and not the E018T...

You must have an earlier version of the book and not the revised addition like mine as page 214 has a line up of the different CMP type vehicles produced by Canada.

The RAAF truck was probably supplied by the British as most AIF vehicles in North Africa were supplied from British Forces Stocks and 'sold' to Australia later so is more likely to be one of the vehicles pictured in Barts book as per the scan I have already posted.

As Ford USA also made Right Hand Drive vehicles for export and I can find no reference to the pictured Ford E018T assembled in England being Left Hand Drive it could in fact be RHD and the same as the pictured Desert Wreck. Ford Canada could be the maker of the RHD desert wreck but I am unsure if they did make the flat cowl export model or not.

The main thing to remember though, is that the desert wreck is a flat cowl model with no signs of door hinge attachment points on the front door pillars so will be one of the export models sold arround the world at that time with RHD versions going to some countries and LHD to others. Cabs and bodies would have been built locally in whatever country the vehicle was shipped to.

Kuno · #27 24-11-07, 10:59

It seems to be somehow complicated with FORD

I wonder what will come out at the end...

nuyt · #28 24-11-07, 17:59

Kuno, you did not accidentally measure the wheelbase?

nuyt · #29 24-11-07, 18:12

OK,

Our desert wreck is rhd drive Ford, probably delivered chassis/cowl and assembled anywhere (England, a West African port)

The Ford on the pic shown by Cliff from Vanderveen at first lookeb to me a lhd (mirror, no visible wheel)....or not?

The Australian Ford I meant is this one (Vanderveen WW2 vehicle 1969, p214), different:

nuyt · #30 24-11-07, 18:32

ok, while I am quacking with the frogs anyway, lets support the French:

Some Ford trucks, also with firewood (Kuno, the French Bedfords seem to have been driving around without doors a lot, so why not a batch of Fords?)