A good day at the flea market today!

[Colin Alford]

Hi Derk,

To me it is very clear that Gray was producing these wrenches for both Ford and Chev (GMC). The wrenches were produced with Gray's standard dies then the necessary Ford or GMC part numbers were stamped in.

For the GMC marked wrenches it is easier to find written references to them because Chev produced updated CMP Parts Lists until well into 1945 so these lists included the new wrenches (first introduced in 43). Unfortunately for the Ford wrenches I have only found the one reference (Ian's Tool Packing List) that actually gives part numbers for them.

Here is a list of the part numbers with descriptions:
Ford:
C39Q 17006 - 1/2" x 9/16" Box Socket Wrench
C39Q 17007 - 5/8" x 3/4" Box Socket Wrench
C39Q 17009 - 15/16" x 1" Box Socket Wrench

Chev:
5824673 - Wrench, Double end - Double offset Hex Box 15/16" x 1-1/16"
5824674 - Wrench, Single end offset - Hex Box 15/16" approx 14" long
5824675 - Wrench, Single end offset - Hex Box 7/8" approx 14" long
5824676 - Wrench, Single end straight - Hex Box 1" approx 14" long
5824677 - Wrench, Double end - Double offset Hex Box 1/2" x 9/16"
5824678 - Wrench, Double end - single offset Hex Box 15/16" x 1" approx 14" long (small end offset)

I know that C39Q 17006 and 5824677 are exactly the same wrench (pics attached).

The description of 5824678 completely matches an actual C39Q 17009.

By extension I suspect that the single end 15/16" Box Socket wrench (unknown part number) shown in the Ford Driver's Handbooks will be the same as 5824674.

I have attached images of C39Q 17006 next to GMC 5824677 and including a"077 Made in Canada". Somewhere I have a "078 Made in Canada 1/2" x 9/16" but it is currently misplaced. I included the "077" to illustrate the similarity with a normal production wrench.

Also there are images that show C39Q 17009 next to GMC 5824673 and a Gray-Bonney 2894 (this is not a CMP wrench but I believe that it nails down the manufacturer of the others).

The 5th image is a GMC 5824674 15/16" offset wrench.

I have been trying to collect examples of both the Ford and Chev wrenches. Perhaps we could conduct a trade?

For any one else reading this: Can anyone provide more info on Ford Box-End wrenches? I am interested to see pictures of any other types of surviving examples, identify correct part numbers from tool lists, or identify different size combinations from Driver's Handbooks.

Colin

[derk derin]

Colin,
I have no use for the GMC wrenches so would be more than happy to trade! You certainly have done your homework on the wrenches and it is nice to finally figure out what kind of wrenches I need to find!
I did some researching on the internet and came across an article that suggests that the DREADNAUGHT brand of wrenches were actually made by GRAY. Have you heard of this before?
Derk

[rob love]

I too was wondering if there was a Dreadnaught connection. Looking at my selection of Dreadnaught wrenched I note they are very similar in their methods of stamping as the Ford wrenches shown in this thread. Edited to add: I got my answer here: http://progress-is-fine.blogspot.ca/...eadnaught.html

As well, the CMP (or was it carrier?) manual shows the double open end wrench set which is held together by a little metal bracket which tightens up and holds the wrenches together. I picked up one of those sets which had a red bracket instead of khaki, and the wrenches are all dreadnaught.

Derk

Perhaps our favorite surplus store is where you want to be looking for CMP wrenches. There are bucket loads of wrenches out there.

[derk derin]

Rob,
That is the plan this spring is to get out there and find the tools that are hidden away. I was told that the engine starting crank handle assembly for the Ford CMP is a two part item.The first being the bent handle part and the straight rod that fits into the engine crank shaft lock. The two parts connect to each other.
I have also just figured out what other tools I am looking for and will be on the hunt now! I need for my Ford CMP the following items;
-CO1Q-17182,DREADNAUGHT open end wrench 3/8'' x 7/16''
-C39Q-17006,Box end wrench,1/2'' x 9/16''
-C39Q-17007,Box end wrench,5/8'' x 3/4''
-C39Q-17009,Box end wrench,15/16'' x 1''
-CO1Q-17033,Wrench,front hub retaining nut
-C11Q-17038(Ford 3 ton parts list),(C39Q-17038 on Ian's parts list)Ford engine starter crank handle assembly
I just came across an interesting part number in the Ford 3 ton parts list,it's for the doohickey that holds the wrenches together,CLIP,WRENCH CO1Q-17166. They gave it it's own part number!
Two more items that are in the parts list are books.One is listed as;
-CO1Q-17067,BOOK,LOG and;
-SE-93-A,INSTRUCTION BOOK
There is a photo of the log book in the back of CANADA'S FIGHTING VEHICLES EUROPE 1943-45,page 202,lists it as ARMY BOOK 412. Has anybody ever seen one of these books before? This is the only photo I have come across showing what it looks like. The other book listed as INSTRUCTION BOOK. What type of instruction book would I need for my Ford 3 ton CMP? I have 4 different types in my collection. Would any of these be the proper instruction book? There are both books displayed on the CMP tool kit board photo but I suspect the tools are for a Chevy CMP as the instruction book is Chevy and apparently the engine starter crank handle is one piece for CHEVY and Ford is two piece as in page 203 of CANADA'S FIGHTING VEHICLES where they have a list of TYPICAL ''B'' VEHICLE BASIC KIT LIST and in it lists the Handle,Ford,1st type and Extension,Ford,1st type? Thoughts on this? I already have a driver's handbook for FORD 3 ton 4x4 and AMBULANCE but is missing page 21 & 22 so would eventually like to find a complete one.
Derk

[derk derin]

Rob,
I just clicked on your link to the tool website and that is the article I was reading a couple of weeks ago suggesting that Dreadnaught was made by Gray. A great informative article.
Derk

[rob love]

Something I just noticed on the photo of all the tools you just posted is that the pick axe and handle are not the typical Canadian/British military issue with the metal re-enforcing on the handle and the shallower head where the handle goes through. The pick axe and handle shown are more the American style, which is also the style commonly found today here in North America.

Also interesting is that it appears that there is a chain coming off the jacking block. It would save the driver from having to crawl under the vehicle to retrieve the block after changing the tire as well as help positioning the jack and block before raising.

I suspect the little clip that holds the tools together was a fairly standard item with Gray tools. below is a shot of a set of double box offset wrenches using the same clip.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by derk derin

There is a photo of the log book in the back of CANADA'S FIGHTING VEHICLES EUROPE 1943-45,page 202,lists it as ARMY BOOK 412.

"I've got you on a four twelve, too."

"A four-twelve? WHAT'S A FOUR-TWELVE?"

"Overacting. Let's go."



Chris.
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[rob love]

Derk

If you google Army Book 412 and then look at images, they are out there. One UK dealer offers reprints. Other sites will show you the contents, which is primarily a vehicle log of repairs and transfers.

http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id...anguage,E.html

http://www.robvanmeel.nl/?q=content/...ard-cover-1241

[Colin Alford]

Derk,

Dreadnaught wrenches - They were definitely manufactured by Gray (see images)

Instruction Book - The "Instruction Book" series pre-date "Maintenance Manual MB-F1". Does your truck have a "Publications Plate" on the driver's door? If so, it likely lists MB-F1 as the Maintenance Manual and your vehicle was produced after the "Instruction Books" went out of print. I do not know exactly which Ford publication has the code SE-93-A but I think that it is safe to assume that it pre-dates MB-F1 because the Ford publication code SE-93-C appears at the lower left corner of the title page of MB-F1.

Starting Crank - On page 203 of "Ford, Illustrated Army Parts Catalogue, 1940 - 1942" the only vehicle that lists a two piece crank handle is the F8. BB 17036 B Handle - Starting Crank, and 67 17040 Extension - Starting crank. All other vehicles list a single C11Q 17038 Crank Assembly - starting. We both see that Ian Fawbert's list shows a C39Q 17038 - Starting Crank Handle Assembly. My take on this is that aside from F8, A 1 piece crank handle is correct and in 1943 there was a design change to the 1 piece crank handle.

Derk/Rob

Clip, wrench - I too have an NOS Dreadnaught set held together with a red clip. This particular set has the correct size combinations for a Chorehorse tool kit. Similar clips were used for other Gray production. Be careful though, there are different sizes to these clips! I have one that appears to be the same as Rob's picture but it will not fit a CMP stack of wrenches as the "U" shape is too narrow for the width of the largest handle and there is not enough height.

Pick Axes - I personally believe that the only Canadian produced vehicle that should have the British Standard Metal reinforced handle and shallow socket in the head is the Universal Carrier.

My reasoning:
The Carrier part #s
C01UC 100720, Head - Pick (U.K. #JA 0072)
C01UC 100721, Helve - Pick (U.K. #JA-0073)
The Ford CMP part #s
C01Q 17169, Helve - Pick (DND10519)
C01Q 17170 Head - Pick (DND10516)

If these were the same items supplied on Ford vehicles then they should have the same part numbers and certainly a good quantity of other general tools supplied with the carriers had C01Q part numbers.

Also, the Ford Lynx had a pick with the standard Ford C01Q part numbers and attached you will find a period illustration of it (you will also likely note the illustration of the Carrier Walker 925 jack and jack block).

Colin

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

I have been trying to collect examples of both the Ford and Chev wrenches.

Hi Colin,
I have a few GMC 5824620 wrenches. If you do not have one, send me a PM, and Ill make sure you get one.

[derk derin]

Well I wound up collecting more GMC wrenches! I was looking through the pile of wrenches in the surplus store in Calgary last weekend where I originally found them hoping this year to find some Ford wrenches thanks to Colin's help but only GMC wrenches were there. I did manage to find one of the 15/16'' GMC 5824674 box end wrench so that may have to go in the tool kit until I find a Ford marked one.

[derk derin]

Another interesting find there was this combination wrench. Marked RCAF and made by Gray Canada. Anyone want to guess as to it's use?
Thanks,Derk

[derk derin]

Wayne,
I also managed to complete a set of Dubl-Hex wrenches (180-185). An antique store in Beausejour,Manitoba this spring had the one's I was missing.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by derk derin

Another interesting find there was this combination wrench. Marked RCAF and made by Gray Canada. Anyone want to guess as to it's use?
Thanks,Derk

Hi Derk, I reckon they are Magneto spanners for adjusting the magnetos on aircraft engines,

Regards Rick.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by lynx42

Hi Derk, I reckon they are Magneto spanners for adjusting the magnetos on aircraft engines,

Regards Rick.

Careful Derk.....it is little things like this wrench set that will cause an obsessive compulsive guy like you to go acquire an airplane.

[derk derin]

Rick,
Thanks for the information.
And Rob,
The old Derk would have gone out to find an aircraft and bring it home to go with the wrench but I am cured now. My focus on life right now is to rebuild a new kitchen for the wife!
Derk

[Grant Bowker]

The markings on the multi-tool suggest it is for use on equipment that uses BA fasteners. What equipment used by the RCAF used BA fasteners?
I know the C5 charging switchboard used with WS19 used that system so it might be fair to assume other pieces of radio kit designed in the UK might use those fasteners.
At risk of sidetracking the thread, is there a list of known Canadian systems that used the BA fastener system?