Restoration Tip: Electrolysis Derusting - Page 3

Jordan Baker · #1 30-12-05, 04:16

HI Greg

Here is my setup that I used very succesfully during the summer. I got a large plastic container at CDN tire along with the battery charger. This charger has both 6/12 volt charging and 100amp boosting assist. I also got a product from the super market called "Washing Soda" Stewart Loy put me onto this stuff. I think it cost about $6 for the box.

Anyway I hooked up fence wire leads running to all the metal anodes. This has the red battery clamp going to it. The other piece of wire was clipped to the black clamp. On some parts i just clamped the black hookup directly to it.

Fill up the container with water and add a couple of handfulls of the washing soda. Stir it all up. Hook the part you want cleaned and submerge it into the water. make sure you have hooked the part to be cleaned up to the negative terminal. Don't let it touch any of the anodes either. Turn on the battery charger and let it do its thing. I found that having it on the 100amp boosting setting worked the best and the fastest. Also you need really good conections on your hookups.

This first photo shows my setup. I did this away from any buildings just in case I messed up.

Jordan Baker · #2 30-12-05, 04:20

Here is one of the carrier parts that I cleaned with it. It had a really bad case of surface rust and a bit of peeling paint. This picture shows that part immediatly after coming out of the electrolytic process. It actualy removed most of the rust and the green paint. The grey paint was the primer that was underneath. I gave it a quick scrubb with a wire bush and then washed it off with the hose.

Jordan Baker · #3 30-12-05, 04:22

Here is the part all washed off and dried ready to be painted.

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #4 30-12-05, 05:56

Hi Greg
This is THE thread. There have been many responses and it contains everything to be known about this method.

Mr. Moderator - would it be more appropriate to rename this thread "Electrolysis Derusting" as opposed to the generic name it bears at the moment?

Bob

#5 02-01-06, 22:31

nice work Jordan , i use a friends small porable sand blaster for mine, he did all his small parts for his WC 52 witch came out great , i still use a electric hand sander when i want a quike job.

BIG MIKE

Lynn Eades · #6 03-01-06, 10:14

It should only be used for mild steel. nothing else!

Hanno Spoelstra · #7 03-01-06, 11:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob Moseley
This is THE thread. There have been many responses and it contains everything to be known about this method.

Mr. Moderator - would it be more appropriate to rename this thread "Electrolysis Derusting" as opposed to the generic name it bears at the moment?

Edit: both threads merged and renamed.

H.

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #8 04-01-06, 22:30

Thanks Hanno
The thread makes much more sense now and I've certainly learnt a lot more about this topic since others have responded.
Bob

#9 04-01-06, 22:33

LYNN ARE YOU A BROAD?LOL

THE EVIL ONE

tankdriver · #10 19-03-06, 01:30

Shouldn't this be a sticky?.....

This has some really great info......

Also did anyone very find an answer to cmperry4 question about the weither the amount is one pound, or one 1 tablespoon soda per gallon?

Thanks

jim sewell · #11 19-03-06, 11:55

Approx one table spoon per gallon

Regards
Jim S.

tankdriver · #12 20-03-06, 02:20

Thanks

cmperry4 · #13 20-03-06, 07:48

Then I used waaaay too much.

tankdriver · #14 23-03-06, 17:03

Did it work better?

Bob Carriere · #15 23-03-06, 21:56

I used a lye solution in a 45 gallon plastic drum........

.....got some pure lye powder from the rural HomeHardware used for horses......

....used about half of a 4 litre plastic container.....solution was very caustic but it sure degreased the part like thunder.

I used a strip of stainless steel 18 inches wide hanging around the whole perimeter.......

...solution was superconductive requiring a 10 amp battery charger and two 12 volts batteries...... within the hour the axle housing hanging from the tractor bucket was derusted, degreased and both batteries were flat out and the charger was clicking on and off on overload.

Rince & dry in the hot sun... spray with mild Phosphoric acid....dry in the sun...paint with POR 15....

....serves 4 hungry people!!!!!

Watch your jeans....leaves nasty pinholes.......makes you look like a punk rocker....

Booob

Jeff Gordon · #16 30-03-06, 12:16

I have been using molasses for a number of years now and although it is i bit slooooooow, it's cheep, environmentally friendly and makes ya shed smell real good(not).
To speed up the process I pump compressed air into it every now and then.
A mate tried 100% molasses and it didn't work as well, about 25% I use.
Jeff
p.s. Wheelie bins are perfect

Keith Webb · #17 03-04-06, 00:58

As the building next door was being gutted with lots of the 12v transformers used for low voltage lighting being thrown out I thought I'd give one a try on a small scale.

So I found a 10l plastic bucket, filled it with water, added some caustic soda flakes at the ratio used for cleaning drains... then added a piece of stainless steel, which curved around the bucket, then a stick across the top with some fencing wire to hang the rusty part (in this case the small bracket which goes where the brake line meets the brake hose). It even had a rusty bolt attached.

Hooked it up with the negative to the work and pos to the stainless stee.

It fizzed away in a most satisfying manner, but after about 5 minutes I noticed a hot plastic smell and found the tranny about to ignite. So I ditched that and applied a battery charger which immediately clicked off and displayed a red fail light.

Not to be deterred I hooked up a 12v battery with charger hooked to it as well which seemed a much happier arrangement with a lot of fizzing and clouds of stuff you wouldn't want to inhale.

I ran this for a couple of hours, checking it occasionally and noting the water was becoming quite warm, along with the battery and charger which was exhibiting similar smells to the earlier transformer.

Unhooked the arrangement, washed off the part which was now quite clean of rust and paint and left the battery to recharge.

Am I correct in assuming the setup was possibly too conductive?

Jordan Baker · #18 03-04-06, 02:00

Keith

It could be that your bucket was too small. Ive read off of some other sites (can't remember where) that if the part and the anode are close they can arc out. If they touch it will happen but somtimes "close enough" is just that, close enough.

You may want to go with a bigger bucket.

Keith Webb · #19 03-04-06, 02:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordan Baker
Keith

It could be that your bucket was too small. Ive read off of some other sites (can't remember where) that if the part and the anode are close they can arc out. If they touch it will happen but somtimes "close enough" is just that, close enough.

You may want to go with a bigger bucket.

Thanks, Jordan

There was at least 4" clearance... but a bigger bucket would also be a good idea. Ideally I'd like to have something large enough to do a door.

jim sewell · #20 03-04-06, 11:51

Kieth
What ever power source you use , you need an amp meter in the circuit ( to measure the amps ) so that you can regulate the amperage .
To regulate the amps , shift the part to be cleaned and the sacrificial further apart , draw the sacrificial item part way out of the solution , change the size of your sacrificial part ( stainless steel lasts longer )or have a weaker solution .( normal solution 1 table spoon washing soda per gallon )
Do not exceed the maximum amps available from your power source ie battery charger , transformer etc To do a door I suggest you build yourself a box and line it with heavy plastic , stand the door up and leave about 300 mm distance to your sacrificial part , use at least an 8 amp battery charger and regulate the amps at about 6 amps , remember this process works in a straight line meaning you will need to turn the door around and it may not me very effective say in a blitz door where you cannot get to the actual surface , for that one you may be better off with molassis mixed on a 5 to one ratio with water .

Have attached a pic of a GMC guard being done , I have used a sheet of corregated iron as the sacrificial piece and my power source was my ford V8 WW 2 Welder with the engine idling I could get 50 amps out of it hence the hydrogen bubbles you can see there , for insulation between the parts I used house bricks and shade cloth . WARNING . Do not pull the leads off as it is discharging as a spark may ignite the hydrogen bubbles when using high amperages .
Regards
Jim S.

Keith Webb · #21 03-04-06, 21:48

Thanks for that Jim - makes good sense. I'll incorporate an ammeter next version.

I notice you have the black to the sacrificial part... whereas others have the negative going to the work...

Bob Carriere · #22 03-04-06, 22:32

Has it seems that the highr the amps the faster it works how would one build a suitable rectifier to convert the low voltage high amperage of a stcik welder......

NOw most of us a a stick welder in the corner of the garage....t hey can put out gobs of amps...... and tyhe output is usually adjustable.....

Can someone design a diagram for a rectifier with the proper capacity to maintain say.....50 amps ... I beleive that Princess auto has surplus individual rectifiers...... the bolted kind that you would instal on a huge aluminium heat sink.... they are rated at 600 volts....

Any takers..... of course the designer would be excused of any liability...... and if worst comes to worst my widow will have a garage sale........

Bob.... Zip Zap.... Carriere

jim sewell · #23 04-04-06, 00:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Webb

I notice you have the black to the sacrificial part... whereas others have the negative going to the work...

Kieth , you are quite right about the polarity , I was using jumper leads to connect to the welding leads and did not take much notice of the colours . Positive ( red cross ) goes to the sacrificial part and negative ( black ) to the work .

Mig welders put out a dc current but again you would need to watch the current as it may overheat the rectifier .

Jim S.

Lang · #24 04-04-06, 05:27

Hanno mentioned commercial rust removal baths. Just be very careful!

They do a quick job with none of the sandblasting damage.

I gave one of these firms a Bantam trailer which was dipped complete into the huge vats. It came out shiny clean. They then washed it three times in other vats to remove all the corrosive residue.

I had to repaint the trailer 3 times over the next couple of months as corrosive residue kept leaching out of every seam. I spent hours with a water blaster hitting all the seams and any area where there was double plating (like around the top tubes and floor seams). The bloody stuff just kept coming. That was 5 years ago and I looked at it the other day and there is still the odd place where the paint has been stripped from the inside out.

I would suggest only single sided work be derusted in baths!

PS: Molasses works great although it will attack cast iron if left for weeks making it look sort of porous. Molasses is just pure sugar. It is the first stage of refinement - molasses, treacle, golden syrup, brown sugar, white sugar. Cows love it and farm supplies carry it but beware they often put salt in the stuff for cows.

Lang

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #25 13-04-08, 13:16

Hi all - as this discussion is again the subject of another thread I thought I would bump this thread back. Perhaps a Moderator could do a combining job.
Bob

Bob Carriere · #26 13-04-08, 17:36

I used a plastic 45 gallon food product barrel and cut the top off.

Filled with water and mixed lye form the rural hardware store.....comes in 5 pounds plastic bottle...... made a fairly strong solution.

Using a piece of scraped restaurant stainless steel counter I made a huge sacrificial circular plate all around the inside of the drum...about 18 inches deep and 40 inches long..... suspended the parts to be cleaned in the solution. Small hanged from a broom handle.... the axle housings were hung form the bucket of the tractor and did only one half at a time.

A regular 12 volt 10 amp charge would almost glow red in about 5 minutes.

I reverted to using 3 large 12 volts batteries which would drain out in about 2 hours....... hydrogen bubbled real fast..... so I did all the work outside the barn in open air. Batteries were recharged overnight for a repeat.....

Lye solution had the advange of removing any oil or grease or even paint that might have been missed by the pressure washer. Solution also cleaned your hands very well as it desolves the fat in your skin...... watch your eyes for splashes...... and drops will make your jeans very religious....!!!!

Parts were rinced with the pressure washer.

Metal was ready to be sprayed with a phosphoric acid as soon as it air dried in the sun. When the phosphate coating dried I hand painted with POR 15.

It really works wonders........

Bob

Hanno Spoelstra · #27 14-04-08, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

Perhaps a Moderator could do a combining job.

Theads merged, sir!

H.

Mike K · #28 12-04-08, 14:11

For those of you who've been using the battery charger and caustic soda method of removing rust . I've been experimenting and have found a better solution that caustic soda . The local 'Warehouse' store ( chain store here in OZ, mainly in qld, nsw and vic. ) sells stuff called 'SUPREME Laundry active soaker' . It's $3 for a 1kg tub .

Start off with hot water .. it seems to aid the process a lot . The Laundry soaker is far less hazardous than caustic soda is , and is about 1/3rd of the price and it works better ! It comes in slightly different forms , I use the variant with a orange lid . ( It's made in Melbourne too )

Once you've finished derusting ,you can soak the bedsheets in it too !!!!!

Mike

Alex Blair (RIP) · #29 12-04-08, 16:45

Hi Mike ..If you look at the ingredients in your laundry soaker you will probably find that the active ingredient is Sodium Carbonate..not Sodium Bicarbonate,but sodium carbonate...That is the best grease killer and probably works on rust too..with electrolysis..
Any laundry soap with that formula,sodium carbonate will do..
Grandma was using that 100 years ago by the name of washing soda..great stuff..I use it mixed up in a spray bottle around the oven..and stove..takes off grease that has been burned on with ease..
Love the stuff and cheep..that is the kicker.

Rob Beale · #30 12-04-08, 22:42

If you mix 3 parts Washing Soda with 1 part Baking Soda you get Natron, which the ancient Egyptians used to dry out the bodies when they were being mummified.

I spent an enjoyable afternoon helping my daughter with a science fair project. We used thin strips of beef schnitzel and it was still hanging round the shed months later: no smell and no rot!

Rob