Canadian Ferrets - Page 2

Colin Macgregor Stevens · #31 12-01-08, 04:59

Dan - It is called "supply and demand" and "inflation".
;-)
The Oklahoma one does not include the smoke grenade launchers by the way.

When buying Ferrets one has a basic choice - Ex-Canadian or ex-British. The Canadian Ferrets were sold surplus c.1981. Most went to the USA as surplus to one buyer and some have suffered greatly in the last quarter century - and a few are even bleaching skeletons now. The ex-British Ferrets often seem to have fared better and some lucky buyers really scored nice condition vehicles. The British kept Ferrets in service longer than CAnada - by another decade. Some were even used in the Gulf War (1991). Canadians like myself may be sentimentally attached to the ex-Canadian examples. Some history can be traced on them (and a lot more now that I have been researching for this book :-) The good news for the British Ferrets is that one can order a copy of the offical record card (you need to know the WD number) from Bovington for 10 Pounds (as I recall). It tells you when and where the ferret was issued.

Canada's 124 Ferrets had no turrets officially. There is a report of a surplus Canadian one with a turret in Wisconsin (as I recall). (Unconfirmed). The one from MILARM in Edmonton had a turret added by Allan Kerr, then the owner, as a security measure. The present owner, Grant McAvoy in Abbotsford, BC has removed the turret and displays it separately.

Fred Van Sickle - My understanding is that his Ferrets were ex-British vehicles.

On today's (2008-01-11) TV news, there was a Ferret that a Doctor drives to work in down in Arlington, Texas. The site makes you watch a commercial before it runs the video. Here is the link:
Ferret driving to work That Ferret is basically the same as the Canadian Ferrets except ours did not have turrets (though we seem to have rented a few turreted Fererts from the British in Cyprus) and as ours were very early production they have square side "windows" whereas this chap's Ferret has the type with a better view area.

The research is 99.999999% done on the Canadian Ferrets for the small book I am writing for SERVICE PUBLICATIONS entitled "The Ferret in Canadian Service." I have found lots of great photos and some interesting stories.

Colin Stevens

Bob Carriere · #32 12-01-08, 05:40

Florida seller has relisted and is now offering two ferrets, one M43 ambulance and a M151 ....asking 16K for the lot.. no bids... closes Jan 16th.... buy now at 17.5K

Discount 3k for the ambulance and 2K for the 151....11 or 12 K for two ferrets...... towing or trailering them back would be a bitch as Rob and Grant can't get enough time off for the trip....

BooB

Dan Sicotte · #33 12-01-08, 16:10

I'd be in for one of the ferrets, if we want to pool our resources....
Supply and demand, yes, ripped off.......yes. I could have gotten a Mk 1 in the U.K for much less, and it would be in much better state, as the Canadian ferrets had a lot more milage, and a lot less parts available to keep them "clean", as the MOD fixed them up before auction.
Dan
Bob, have you got a date for the BBQ?

Colin Macgregor Stevens · #34 12-01-08, 20:49

Yes, the Canadian Ferrets are more tired than the UK Ferrets in general and that was before some were left sitting out of doors for a quarter of a century after being sold. Canada did not do arsenal rebuilds of Ferrets apparently. Only two of the 124 were ever written off and that was due to fires.

The one that lost its right front wheel, fender, bins, antenna tube, sand channels and escape hatch to a land mine in Egypt. IFerret UNEF 1210 was fixed. You would be surprised how little it cost to fix and put back in service.

It boils down to how important is the history to you.

In the military jeep world the counterpart is a Canadian Contract W-LU 440-M-PERS-1 vs. an MB/GPW ex-Franch Army La Maltournee arsenal rebuilt jeep with MB, GPW and Willys of France parts.

Yes one can buy a nice British Ferret, and modify/paint it to look like a Canadian one and have a lot of fun with it. Mind you, it would likely be a later model with the newer side "windows" shape instead of the rectangular type used on the early Ferrets including the Canadian. If buying ex-British one to do as a Canadian one, try to find an early one with the rectangular side "windows". Look for a WD number close to 36 BA 66 (mine which is Canadian had that WD number). The Aussie Ferrets are from the same contract as the Canadian Ferrets but the shipping would be a killer.

Bob Carriere · #35 13-01-08, 04:14

...... Hi Dan.

will need to consult the other Rotters........

.....will get back to you and all the other PQ enthusiasts...

BooB

Ed Storey · #36 27-01-08, 22:06

I located this image that I have on file.

Colin Macgregor Stevens · #37 28-01-08, 05:26

Thank you Ed.

This photo shows the 56 Canadian Reconnaissance Squadron Canadian Ferrets sent to UNEF (Egypt) in 1957 where they were landed at Port Said 25-26 March 1957 and before they were driven to Rafah in Eqypt on 1957 April 8.

Text for my "The Ferret in Canadian Service " book for Service Publications is now 99% complete.

I travelled a lot while researching the book - Kelowna, Vernon, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and Petawawa. Whew! Wish I could have gotten to other places like Valcartier and Oshawa. LdSH(RC) Archives and RCD Archives in particular have been most helpful.

One triple mystery - WHERE did Ferrets get sent when pulled out of Egypt (UNEF), when pulled out of Cyprus (UNFICYP and when pulled out of Germany (NATO)? Their arrival was news, but their departures was not.

Another mystery: I am looking for a cross-reference list (or even individual examples!) between UNEF fleet numbers and Canadian Army Registration Number (CAR, later called CFR). Early on, BOTH numbers were painted on vehicles, but later only the UNEF number shows. I have identified some from photos which show both numbers, and have CAR/CFR numbers for most if not all UNEF Ferrets, but I dearly want to know the CAR/CFR number for each UNEF number. This info was not found in War Diaries of the Recce Squadrons in UNEF (Library and Archives Canada in Ottawa) nor in UN Archives.

Colin Stevens

Ed Storey · #38 11-02-08, 03:16

Sorry for this blurry image, but here is one of FV 701 Ferret Mk 1 54-82508 before it was stripped to the hull.

Colin Macgregor Stevens · #39 11-02-08, 05:08

Thank you Ed

Here is a photo of 54-82508 in active service in Cyprus.

More photos of here on my main Ferret web page at
http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/ferret.htm

By the way, I have only found four (4) ex-Canadian Ferrets privately owned in Canada. Most privately owned ex-Cdn Ferrets are in the USA.

Colin Stevens
Richmond BC
Owner 54-82598

maple_leaf_eh · #40 19-05-08, 03:15

Why is the soldier on the right in the Gaza strip photograph holding his backside with both hands?

On the other hand, there is/was a Ferret in front of the 12eRBC hanger in Valcartier in the mid-70's. It was a memorial to a Canadian officer killed in Vietnam - Laviolette? Latulipe? That is most likely a Canadian vehicle.

According to this website, there are at least 14 Ferrets (of all marks) in Canada.

http://ipmswinnipeg.1afm.com/Preserved%20CDN%20AFVs.htm

Terry

Mike Timoshyk · #41 19-05-08, 06:56

Why is the soldier on the right in the Gaza strip photograph holding his backside with both hands?

I suggest to you that it is the first recorded case of "Yalla-Yalla"

for the contingent. If the pic was taken seconds later you would seen him "on the run". ( I speak from experience)

Cheers

Mike Timoshyk in Windsor Ontario

Ed Storey · #42 28-12-08, 02:02

Here is a photograph of a RCE Ferret 54-82620 in Germany 1957. I see it ended up in Petawawa in 1981.

maple_leaf_eh · #43 30-12-08, 17:03

Check out these Ferrets! More for the tally. Scroll down to the bottom of the page.

http://www.armouredacorn.com/photoscan.html

Dan Martel · #44 03-01-09, 21:19

Colin,

The only Ferret scout car trivia that I have comes from the archives at DHH.

In April, 1962 the Director of Equipment Policy, a Colonel GM Rolfe, responded to an earlier inquiry from the DSD with a list of all of the equipment held by the Army as of that date. The list was broken down into four annexes for vehicles, weapons, electronics and aircraft.

Under the vehicles annex it shows a total of 123 scout cars (one shy of the number initially acquired). The list shows a distribution of 39 in Europe, 72 in the CA(R), 0 in the CA(M), 6 being used in schools and 6 in RCOC depot stock.

I know it's not much but I thought you would be interested.

I also noticed in an earlier message you stated that two of the vehicles were written off after fires. Do you have the dates of the write off? It appears that one occurred before 1962.

Dan

Dan Martel · #45 09-01-09, 20:33

Found this photo of Ferrets on parade in 1986. The lead two are from the 4th/7th Dragoons. The two following in the closest file are from the Glosters. Back in line the crew commanders are wearing red over white hackles denoting the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers. Note the Berlin Brigade tactical sign on the left fender, RAC AOS on the right, the Union Jack on the lower front centre and regimental insignia on the front of the turrets. The turret weapons appear to be .30 cal mmg's (based on the what I can see of the barrel) but I could be wrong on that.

Camouflage appears to be black and olive, and the tires have been shined up for the parade.

As has been stated previously the British Army continued to find a use for the Ferret well after the Canadian Forces retired it, and also after its replacement, the Fox, came into service.

Dan

Brad Mills · #46 10-01-09, 16:08

Another photo of 03 CC 23 doing what Ferrets did best... :-)

jkftl · #47 02-07-09, 23:54

I have asked several folks on FH but they can't help. I have a mystery Mk1. It has the features of Canadian vehicles, as follows:

1. Came with US M-series marker light pots on hand-built heavy steel brackets. I can't stand them and removed.
2. Guard bars over oil cooler
3. US Vietnam-era alternator installed and generator box gone; many taped wire joints. Civilian turn-signal unit hose-clamped to steering gear (original missing).
4. Cold-start modification (hole punched in carburettor horn)
5. Tubular marker light guards on all fenders
6. Angle front/side windows
7. Red leatherette seat cushions (remains)
8. Evidence of removed data plate over driver's right shoulder
9. Many disused studs welded around interior. I cut off 56 of them.
10. Eight flame-cut holes in rear for mounting UNEF auxiliary gas cans.
11. Upper rear spare threaded stud cut off
12. There are NO hull numbers anywhere
13. There is a nice number stamped at the lower edge of the Glacis plate: 00002 0039
14. I found a RCEME rebuild tag on the transmission, dated 1978
15. Several main armor plates are lightly stamped with various numbers, all starting with D 59, then 3 or 4 more digits on the next line
16. I found an interesting number magic-markered on the underside of the angled piece of sheet steel on top of the stowage bin under the left escape hatch; 58395. Could it be vehicle #395, contract year 1958?
17. I received the vehicle with nasty hand-daubed green camo paint and no identifying numbers. Unfortunately I was not present during sandblasting, and information could have been lost at that time.
18. The previous owner never did much to the vehicle over the 15 years he had it. He lived north of Chicago. It was really ugly when it arrived here (Ft. Lauderdale) but the engine ran nicely. Neither the previous owner nor I ever moved it under its own power. I haven't checked bevel boxes or fluid coupling, but the gearbox has nice lube in it.

OK, guys...let's put our heads and collected knowledge together and identify this machine. Serious restoration is underway, and I will need something credible to put on the title application. If you need further information, I can be your eyes.

John Kessler

rob love · #48 03-07-09, 05:05

John
That number is not a Cdn CFR...all the Cdn ferrets were in the 82XXX range.

The American style lights were never an official mod on the Cdn ferrets.....it was just a matter of fitting on what was handy. Often the lamps were mounted on the original ferret lamp brackets, although it should be noted there was a modification instruction to relocate the original lamps to a higher position.

The US style of 60 amp generator was an approved Cdn modification, and the regulator was removed when these were installed.

I believe the Cdn contract ran over the mk1 rectangular windows to the mk1/2 odd shaped windows.

The civilian turn signal arm was common on all the Cdn vehicles back then, including the ferrets. Common were the doray and the signal stat models.

The numbers stamped on the various plates are likely the part numbers for each individual plate of metal.

I have seen the odd Cdn ferret without the CFR stamped in front of the horn bracket, but the vast majority have them.

Of course, this thread is useless without pictures.

shrapnel · #49 03-07-09, 14:58

The "disused studs" you cut off... Could they be the studs used to attach the various interior bins and other equipment inside the ferret??? Cutting them off maybe wasn't such a good idea...

jkftl · #50 03-07-09, 21:08

Before cutting off any studs I checked two restored Ferrets and made diagrams. I now have places for about 6 bins and lots of nice open spaces. Most of the female 5/16" weld sockets were in correct places. Most studs (5/16 and 1/4) were Canadian mods and I could find no reason to retain them. As I mentioned, I counted over 50 little cut-off pieces after finishing. It looks SO much better, particularly now with the primer on whole interior. At this point photos show nothing but my efforts. As-received photos I took reveal nothing.

Craig S. · #51 03-07-09, 22:16

Hello all. I'm trying to interpret hull numbers and serial numbers (or any others?). Looking at some of the info in this thread got me out scraping and trying to find the ID of 2 Ferrets here in Gagetown. I found the CFR's stamped into the top of the hull forward right of the drivers position and stuck my arm and camera into the drivers front "window" to get a pic of the plate welded inside on the right. Are there any other locations? Also the welded plate with the markings (313.B.3.4.) in the picture I’ve attached below represent what exactly? It seems that this would be a hull number, but the amount of digits on the plate do not match what is referenced as a serial number on the DND database, with the matching CFR? For this particular Ferret, CFR 54-82532, the serial number is only 2 digits (forgot to copy them down before leaving work) followed by 'B' and another digit, ie.**.B.*. I took these pics of the Ferret's I'm referencing. Can anyone make this a bit more clear? Thanks in advance,

Craig

Brad Mills · #52 03-07-09, 22:36

Where is Colin when you need him? :-)

rob love · #53 03-07-09, 22:55

It is my belief that the first three digits are the sequential serial number of the ferret (313 in your case) and the other two digits are the month and the year of production. I have no idea what the B stands for.

It was quite common back then that CFR numbers were not assigned in order of serial number. Our ferrets were part of the first production, along with the Australians, as someone mentioned earlier.

Jim Rice · #54 04-07-09, 18:57

The Strathcona's Historical Troop restored two original Ferrets that were original regimentally used and ended up as display pieces in Martin Park in Calgary. They sat flanking the last Regimental Centurion for at least 15 years before we got the first one (with a welded on trailer hitch) and the Centurion running for the 1995 Reunion. I believe that the hitch was installed to tow a 25 pdr funeral gun.

We did use it again in 1995 for a funeral after Jack Guthrie's FAT crapped out.

I believe the other Ferret was restored once they arrived in Edmonton. We recieved about 15 Ferrets (for parts) prior to moving to Edmonton. Most were scrapped or became hard targets (in exchange for Sherman parts) as the junk was disposed of first by Suffield and I believe that the Strats got a second load of vehicles which combined with the original two make up the current display troop.

mike mckinley · #55 06-07-09, 17:17

this ferret was on display at gagetown circa 1984-85.

Craig S. · #56 06-07-09, 18:46

That Ferret is still in the area. I haven't stopped in to confirm what it's actual CFR is yet.

mikethebike · #57 11-03-10, 21:35

Great to see my Ferret in service (03 CC 23), I have what I think is the complete in-service records ... which is nice

Not sure what "VSD Berlin" is, as that is where it was attached in '86
Looking more closely at the record card, it was actually in "D" sqn 4/7 DG from 81 thru 83, maybe it was still marked up as such later?

Mick

Brad Mills · #58 17-03-10, 00:49

Mick,

Nice to see photos of ones vehicle actually in service.

I wish I could find some of mine, 02DA45, she was with 1 Para in Northen Ireland during Bloody Sunday. 1st Para Bn was the resident battalion based from 21 Sept 70 to 25 May 72 at Palace Barracks, Hollywood, north east of Belfast. Note: Inf and Para Bns are not issued with scout cars. However, NI was a special case.
Still searching for pics...

VSD = Vehicle Sub-Depot
CVD = Central Vehicle Depot
These are armoured vehicle storage depots.

Cheers

phill hoath · #59 13-10-10, 09:26

About 10 or 12 years back I paid £1000 for 02DA45, she came from
a scarp yard in Andover, we drove her home ! then did a full nut and bolt refit, had lots of fun at shows, but was sold on sometime in 2000 i understand she is now in Hereford not used. this is the only photo I can find at this time If i find more will let you know.

cant get photo to show,but if you email me I will send it
all the best
Phillip Hoath
Leominster
uk
prhoath@yahoo.co.uk

Robin Craig · #60 13-11-11, 05:29

Just to bump this thread up a bit.

One of our two Ferrets, I have today been shown by Jason when visiting that there is a Road Runner on the vehicles right side.

He also managed to pick out the name CHINA above the front hatch in the sea of names that are layered very close together.

There is also the remains of what I take to be call sign 31 on the right side.

As I have said elsewhere, while these markings are all on the vehicle, there is no provenance to say that they existed at the same time together as a set.

So, I'm saying that it is an LDSCH vehicle

R