Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

[jack neville]

I have a couple of those cheap Pakistan tarps and whilst the are nice and heavy, the color did fade quite quickly and the stitching and brass eyelets are pretty ordinary. But they were cheap and useful.

I bought a set of Worthing canvas for a Diamond T project and in the deal added enough of the same good quality 18oz US canvas to do a few other projects. It was £20 per metre (If I remember correctly) but you can't get that good stuff readily in Australia unless you find some old heavy tarps.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

Another problem that I have run into is buying new canvas tarps is that some that I bought actually mildewed in the plastic bag sitting on the shelf. I'd bought them to make covers for equipment and before that could be done the tarps had mildewed and developed natural black on tan camouflage patterns.

Now this may just have been a batch of traps that had been sealed in the bags wet or gotten wet in handling. Response I got from the local Tractor Supply was it seems that for environmental reasons they no longer can use the same stuff used on Military canvas in the 40s and 50s. They did replace the tarps and didn't even want the old ones back.

Cheers Phil

[Private_collector]

Wow. There's some very interesting and useful information in last few postings.
Sure sounds like every silver lining has a cloud. In comparing the modern er...quality tarps against the widely acknowledged cheap, Indian made products, I wager there is justification for deciding one over the other, regardless which option you go for, depending on your individual needs and circumstances.

Let's compare:

Indian/Cheap tarps
Good weight
100% Cotton
Weave looks right
Much cheaper
Tend to fade dramatically
Stretches
Prone to ripping where sewn
Original stitching can rot
Not as hard wearing
Questionable waterproofing long-term

Modern/High quality tarps
Superior weatherproofing
Superior materials used
Less prone to ripping
Doesn't fade (much, if any)
Little stretching
Won't rot
Often a blend of cotton & Poly
Rip-stop has noticable chequered pattern
Weave too fine, doesn't look right
Considerably more expensive

Anything canvas I put onto the grey truck, needs to be able to withstand the elements, because that vehicle lives outside. The restoration truck, on the other hand, will enjoy a life of being returned to full weatherproof, sun proof shelter inside my workshop. What I'm about to say next, will sound a bit 'bass ackwards'.

I think I will go with cheap canvas for the restoration truck, and the better canvas for the grey/unsheltered vehicle. I really want the right look for the resto truck, and fading, diminishing weathproofing, and stretching are not things that will be of significant concern under the above circumstances. In fact, the stretching in particular is something I feel may be of good use. Especially so with the sunshine roof cover, provided the stretch is finite! I may even look into having a second pair of side curtains made, so all the canvas matches.

The currently grey truck will require much better canvas, to survive all day out in the sun. I should add that I will also purchase a good big plastic tarp to throw over the whole thing, when not intending to drive it for extended periods (? Greater than few days). I had a missed call from a canvas company in Victoria yesterday, and assume they are responding to my enquiry about supply and cost of the modern, high quality canvas. We are attending a funeral today, but I will return the call this afternoon, if an appropriate time arises.

So, in summary, I expect best course of action is; Best canvas I can find for the daily driver out in the open, and the cheap Indian canvas for the permanently sheltered restoration vehicle. The cab roof is where I will start working with larger size applications, and we'll see how I fare. Plans may need to be revised, depending on how successful I am with the sewing. If I bollocks it up, I will stop and turn the job over to my auto upholstery guys. I hope that isn't required. Am actually looking forward to making the roof cover. Always satisfying to know you made something that (I hope) looks good. I'll make a start on Sunday.

[David Dunlop]

Hello Tony.

I found Phil's experience interesting. It had not occurred to me that anti fungal and anti mildue products may no longer be used on canvas, and it would not surprise me at all if there has also been a big shift away from the wax and oil based waterproofing compounds of the war years to more modern silicone based agents, which are very effective.

Not sure how much humidity you get down your way, or for how long it hangs around, but I have seen mold and mildue set up very quickly on fabrics stored inside in these parts, when the heat and humidity combination gets just right.

The Canadian Tire Company out this way carried a canvas waterproofing product for tents in their camping supplies that was silicone based and anti mildue. It was available in colours at one time but I think it is now neutral. Comes in one litre and four litre cans and can either be brushed or sprayed on. I used it to revive an original M38 CDN canvas top once and it worked a treat! It did darken the canvas down a bit when finished but that was actually an improvement in this case as the colour had faded quite badly over the years and it looked a bit closer to original when finished.

It might be worth your while to see what is available locally and test our a small tin if you can. I'd hate to see a batch of warm fuzzies set up home on all your hard work!


David

[Private_collector]

I think I will look into doing that, David. It's a lot of potential benefit for not a lot of money.
Humidity here can get VERY bad during summer. I hate it. Really wears me out and can make working outside quite uncomfortable.

I'll start checking available types, this evening.

Thanks for your thoughts, David!

[Private_collector]

Well, today I have received quite a few samples of currently available canvas types. The modern canvas is dramatically different from the raw looking stuff we are used to seeing on vintage military vehicles, but all types seem to have positive and negative aspects.

The fabrics below, are all from one supplier. They sent me three different types to inspect. The serated edges of the majority afforded me opportunity to test their resistance to tearing, with impressive results.
20160923_184007-resized-1280.jpg
First style, and by far largest selection, are obviously rip-stop material. They are a thick, quite stiff material, and feel like a Poly fabric. Rip-stop isn't for me, because of the chequered pattern. I think you could tie a piece of this to a bogged 4X4 and pull it out without tearing the stuff. It really feels that strong, and I did try (without success) to tear it apart. It just laughed at me! The weave is too tight for canopy use anyway, in my opinion.
20160923_184045-resized-1280.jpg
Next ones are similar density and weave, minus the tell-tale rip-stop chequered pattern. Poly fabric again. It looks good, and would be worth considering for some projects. It is very stiff though, so you may not want to use it where 'billowing' canvas look is appealing. This stuff wouldn't flap much in a tornado. Probably good thickness for home awnings, vintage caravan annexes and squatters chairs. You foreign folks, look up squatters chair in google. As with the previous selection, weave is much finer than military canvas of decades ago. This type also mocked my puny attempt to damage it.
20160923_184114-resized-1280.jpg
These next two are similar in appearance to the second photo BUT they are thinner material. I would be quite happy to use this for my side curtains and similar sized applications. It would keep it's shape nicely, in uses where that would be desirable, but this fabric is sufficiently thinner in feel, making it a better choice for a range of applications. This one ticks the boxes for any future side curtain manufacture I do. Remember, I still have the dismantled original curtain/s used as pattern to have a pair of new ones made, to copy from. I'll need to improve sewing technique before tackling those. The pair I had made for the restoration truck a couple of years ago were probably done in this material. A visit to the workshop tomorrow afternoon will confirm that, but I'm fairly confident. While maybe not the range of colors to choose from, I wouldn't be upset with using the one green shade shown here. There may be other colors available, but I didn't get them in the batch of samples I received. In keeping with the trend, material has the same feel and look of the previous two types, so I'm confident they are synthetic materials also. Oh, and I couldn't tear these buggers either! Is it too much to ask that I manage to rip one sample, just a little bit? Apparently it is!
20160923_184326-resized-1280.jpg
This last image shows all the samples together. It's an impressive range. All are waterproof, surprisingly tear resistant, and none could be persuaded to fray. While no description accompanied my samples, I'm prepared to wager they are all very colorfast. Can't say that about the cheap, 100% cotton tarp materials, manufactured in India and the likes. As I said, all have positives and negatives, but if you're looking for longevity over replication of exact appearance, these will outlast religion!

I'll post another suppliers range in next posting, along with some visual comparison between both lots and the Indian/Pakistan made cotton canvas currently available everywhere on earth.

[David Dunlop]

Nice to see the modern options available, Tony.

Might also be worth seeing if you could get samples from any supplier of the 100% cotton items in as heavy a weight as possible. I think the original wartime stuff was in the order of 18 to 16 oz. I don't think they worried about thread count for that stuff.

Different mills probably have different production capabilities. Some can probably waterproof and mould protect on site, but most may not. Any dyed canvas is going to bleed like a stuck pig if it is not waterproofed, so the fact it might bleed just means the cloth has not been treated in any way. That probably opens up canvas products to a larger potential market for sales. If the buyer happens to be a tent maker, they may purchase bulk canvas in any colour and waterproof etc themselves, have it done by the canvas manufacturer or outsource that part of the work to a 3rd party company.

It might be cost effective to get a 100% cotton heavy weight canvas untreated in the colour you want and then apply suitable coatings yourself.

Also, I wouldn't worry about shrinkage too much. All canvas shrinks when wet, Even the treated stuff. It's the nature of the beast. My M38 top was a Beachwood Canvas product out of the USA. It was a nice relaxed fit in the summer heat and would snug up a bit in colder Fall/Winter weather. But get it wet in the Summer and it would tighten up so much a group of Taiko Drummers could have performed a concert on it! Same thing used to happen with my M37 top come to think of it, though not so much the end curtains for some reason.

You could always stitch up a one foot square of whatever you end up working with, soak it, toss it in the sun to dry and see what sort of shrinkage you get before and after waterproofing. That would give you a good idea of the wiggle room you would need to factor in for the actual parts making.

Keep up the great research!


David