Work on My F8, No. 11

[Jim Price]

The past two days accomplished the following:

Finished dismounting all four tires and today took the rims to the stripper for rust removal.

Cleaned the gas tank up (I've only got one of the two needed; anybody got a source for the second?) and took it to the chemical bath stripper today.

Took the springs to another shop today and the reception was like night and day compared to the first one I went to; this fellow had a great can-do attitude coupled with a super sense of customer service!

Checked on the paint; not ready yet but should be tomorrow.

Removed the input shaft to the differential and found that some strong-arm repairs had been made some time back leaving the channel for the key badly boogered up; may have to have it welded and remachined!

When delivering the wheel rims the stripper advised he'd have them as well as the frame and the other parts I'd dropped off earlier ready for painting this Friday; the turnaround in activities soon begins!

Called the brake shop and the hubs have been turned, new shoes set aside, a new master cylinder located but no springs or wheel cylinders as yet. (I picked up a catalog for Mac's, a parts dealer in old Ford parts; found some wheel cylinders and tension springs in it. http://www.macsautoparts.com/)

One of my helpers has gone to California for 10 days so am down to just the two of us to work on the project over that time period!

With all the big stuff gone, cleaned the garage floor; lots of dust!

That's all for now!

Regards,
Jim

[Jim Price]

Today was a sort-it-all-out day; accomplished the following:

Picked up the paint yesterday and delivered it to the body shop. The color was correct and I learned a great lesson: Don't ever, ever have some of your paint put into aerosal cans BEFORE you've had a chance to make sure you've got the right color! I now have a dozen cans of a beautiful pea-green color!

Today we sorted and cleaned all the remaining parts and put them into groups for eventual delivery to the stripper and painter: The internal front half body parts, the outside body parts, the foot pedals assembly and the steering components. By the way, am having a devil of a time removing the steering wheeel from the column; any suggestions?

Pounded out the one fender that had a large crease in it. Looks amazingly good for some strong arm finishing! Will apply some finesse next week to finish the job.

Found the missing brake parts for the right rear wheel in a box sent along by the seller of extra parts; they were in the bottom and had escaped my attention! Called the brake shop and let them know so they wouldn't have to search for a full set! Will make a visit there on Monday with the found parts.

Cleaned up the backing plates along with the front axle assembly and the rear axle and sent them all on their way via my helper to the stripper and then to be painted.

That's all for this day!

Regards,
Jim

[Jim Price]

Having taken the weekend off was back at it today. We accomplished the following:

Donned our masks and cleaned out the asbestos from the engine compartment panels. Bagged it all for safe disposal!

Disassembled the windshield and found that the channels will need to be replaced. Thanks to Phil I have a way of accomplishing that easily by using an M-37 windshield frame! Thanks, Phil!

Began cleaning the lug nuts. all 72 of them!, in preparation for painting them. Have got 37 cleaned so far. What a boring, boring job!

Committed to buy a Ford flathead engine, one with 81A heads which places it having been made between 1938 and 1941. (My truck is a 1940.) Had looked at it earlier but asked the seller to remove the oil pan for a closer look at the innards. All looks ok so bought it. Am taking a chance as I've never heard it run but the seller is known for his honesty (He's in the frame business locally.). Will probably pick it up tomorrow.

That was all for the day; humidity was fierce!

Regards,
Jim

[king of obsolete]

keep the updates coming. really enjoying how you are working in the heat as i enjoy the great white north.

thansk
KoO
Published Author

[Jim Price]

Hello to all, especially the King of Obsolete!

Yesterday was a travel day. Did the following:

Stopped by the brake shop to check on their progress in finding the brake parts. My pile of parts has grown significantly! Was advised that they should have all by a week from tomorrow.

Went to the bank to pick up the cash for the engine. Am picking it up today. That's another story! Called a couple of friends who committed to help me and then one cancelled last night and the other this morning! Will have to go it alone!)

Stopped at a steel supply house to check on steel channel to replace the windshield frame. Had sticker shock over the cost of M-35 and M-37 frames! Have found some 3/8" ID by 1" channel and someone to cut the pieces down to a 3/8" by 9/16" at a cost significantly less.

Went grocery shopping after having put it off for a week; too busy on the truck parts!

Today my helper and I assembled several parts to take to the striper and painter: The four shock absorbers (anyone have any experience restoring these?), the steering column and gear box (emptied it of all the oil), the steering connecting rod and steering arm and the brake and clutch pedal assembly.

We did some more strong arm body work on the front bumper supports and the back panels to the bed and added them to the pile to take to the stripper.

Drilled out and tapped the screw holes in the windshield pipe frame. Only managed to twist off 6 when removing the channel frame.

Cleaned some more lug nuts; only 21 more to go (out of 72!).

Went to the tool store and purchased an engine stand; didn't have one and my helper couldn't find his. It's a beauty with 2,000 pounds capacity!

Am off in a few minutes to pick up that channel and then on to pick up the engine. (By the way, Howard, the seller, is from Manchester; nice fellow to do business with!)

Regards,
Jim

[Mike K]

Jim

rusted out windscreen frames is a common problem on these old vehicles . I bought three NOS cab 11 complete windscreens from Bill drew for 15 $ each years ago... I shipped one off to the UK to a friend who also owns a cab 11 C8 . I opted to keep the original glass , but he had it replaced with modern stuff .

Laminated glass windscreens in cars only came into regular use here in the 1970's , before then, the car makers used toughened plate glass , it was cheaper . When I was a kid a big truck passed us and a rock went through the windscreen of the Vanguard , it missed me by a few inches , straight through the toughened glass screen which shattered into thousands of small pieces , the driver couldn't see through the now white crackled screen . Give me laminated anyday .

Mike

[Jim Price]

Mike:

Thanks for the input! How right you are about that old style glass. As for both sides of the windshield glass, they are so badly cracked that thye'll need replacing anyway!

Regards,
Jim

[king of obsolete]

sounds like you had a busy day, any pictures???
it rained all day in the KINGDOM plus my daughter had 5 of her friends over. so it was surf the internet.

thansk
KoO
Published Author

[Jim Price]

Thnigs have been a bit slow over the past two days but for a couple of big events!

Picked up the engine night before last and hauled it home in my ancient Toyota pickup. Found that my seller had painted it a bright red in hopes of selling it to a hot rod builder. Have ordered the correct Ford engine green paint appropriate to 1940. Engine and it's innards look good. Will see if we can get it started! See the picture.

Began work on the engine by removing all the head bolts so that we can polish the valves. Lots of flaked-off rust in the water jackets and began to blow them out with some air from the compressor. Need to be sure we get that residue out before putting it back together!

Am giving some thought to going to a 12-volt system and having an electronic ignition/distributor installed. Will change to a negative ground system but with all the electric components out the only problem we may have is with the some of the original instruments. Any thoughts or comments out there?

Picked up the frame from the painter yesterday. The color looks good! The picture attached shows the color to be a bit lighter than it actually is.

Picked up the square pipe, 1/2" by 1", (not channel as I thought!) night before last and today we cut it to length and I took it over to a machine shop to have it cut to 1/2" OD by 3/8" ID for the windshield frame. It should be ready by the middle of next week.

No work planned for this weekend. It's hot, hot, and humid. Temp reached 105 F today. The garage is open with only a fan to cool us off! Must stop every hour to drink at least a 20 oz. bottle of water.

That's all for now!

Regards,
Jim

[king of obsolete]

the engine colour looks good since i'm colour blind, LOL check between the valve seats for cracking. my dad SiR HENRY rebuilds these engines and he goes through several blocks before he finds a good one to rebuild.

thansk for the updates during the heat. cool evening here in the great white north with the windows open and a nice cool breeze at +19C.

thansk
KoO
Published Author

[cletrac (RIP)]

There's two places that the old flatties usually crack. On some cylinders they'll crack between a water passage and a head bolt. These aren't serious and a bit of sealant on the bolt will usually avoid having any problems arising. The ones that go across the valve seat and into the port are a different matter. They turn an otherwise good engine into a boat anchor.

[king of obsolete]

cletrac, you can lock&stitch these cracks. also SIR HENRY is updating the valves with chevy ones.

thansk
KoO
Published Author

[T Creighton]

[Began work on the engine by removing all the head bolts so that we can polish the valves. Lots of flaked-off rust in the water jackets and began to blow them out with some air from the compressor. Need to be sure we get that residue out before putting it back together!]


You are certainly making speedy progress Jim.

Please keep up the running commentary.

While you are checking out the engine you should consider replacing the 4 expansion plugs (frost plugs) at the bottom of each side water jacket where the oil pan bolts on. They are usually brass but some engines have steel ones that will develop pin holes. While they are out you can give the water jackets a real good cleaning.

Cheers, Terry

[Jim Price]

Terry:
Thanks for the tip about removing the frost plugs. Will be working on the engine on Tuesday and knock them out!

Also, thanks for the kind words about my commentary on the F8 restoration project! It's fun and I hoped that others would enjoy reading about my progress on it.

Regards,
Jim

[Jim Price]

Days 46, 47 and 48 were spent recovering from the previous week's activities. We resumed today and accomplished the following:

Cleaned some more lug nuts. Am down to 6 to go!

Cleaned all 48 head bolts after my helper made the maximum effort and managed to get all of them out without snapping a one!

Began to clean out the the water jackets on the engine and heads and got one side almost cleaned out. Amazing what happens when an engine is allowed to dry out and the rust buildup turns into rust flakes!

Picked up the radiator from the shop. What a thing of beauty! Will post pictures as soon as I get it unloaded from the truck.

Went to the speed shop that specializes in parts for vintage Fords and Chevrolets and picked up a brake line kit, a 4 lb. pressure radiator cap, a can of sealant for the gas tank, a gasket kit for the engine and a book on rebuilding the flathead engine. Unfortunately the front seal for the differential that they had advised had arrived turned out to be the wrong one!
Will need to go back for it as it's already paid for!

Got a call from the chemical stripper that my gas tank is done; will pick it up in the morning.

Regards,
Jim

[Mike K]

Jim

It may be worthwhile getting your engine block cleaned in a bath by a professional. Some engine shops use a hot caustic bath to boil out all of the crud .. others use a acid dip then another dip in something else . The block will look like new again, almost.

You need to remove any alloy bits , I cannot recall if those blocks use babbit cam bearings in situ ?

Those Ford V8 lumps are 'warm motors' . With not much leeway there for potential cooling system problems .. everthing needs to be top shape .. I had a ex army 1941 11D truck and it would boil away at the slightest mishap.. like the coolant level going down slightly . I must have poured 50 bucks worth of bars leaks into that thing over the time I drove it around . The radiator in it was U/S .The movie company I sold it to (Illumination films in Middle Park ) , recored the radiator, $800 !!! It was used in a movie called 'the nun and the bandit'. Channel 9 used to play it on late night time slots , Chris Hayward is in it.

Mike

Mike

[Jim Price]

Mike:
Thanks for the cleaning tips on the block. I was gone most of the day and my helper cleaned out the rest of the engine water jackets by hand. We'll be getting together tomorrow to decide what the next step will be.

The babbit bearings were used up until late 1936 when they went to the stell inserts. Mine is a 1938-1942 production and has the latter type.

Ford flatheads have always run hot. One of things I have done is to have a diffferent filler neck installed that will accept a radiator cap with a four pound pressure. This should help prevent the loss of so much water. However, it will still require attention!

Regards,
Jim

[Jim Price]

"The devil's in the details!" somebody once said; this certainly can be applied to the restoration process of a vehicle!

The past two days we've been following up on a number of these:

Picked up all the new brake parts, imcluding the drums with a newly-machined brake shoe surface on them from the brake shop. A couple of the drums had already been turned in the past and could not be fully turned to remove all the pitting.

Began cleaning all of the original brake parts which had been deemed early on to be reusable and took an inventory to be sure we had everything needed to install the hydraulic system. (The emergency brake cable will be next on the list of to-dos.)

Picked up the gas tank from the chemical dipper yesterday and today we gave it a preliminary washing with water. Tomorrow we'll use some MEK to clean it some more and rid it of any water. We then plan on pouring the sealant in it and giving the interior a good sloshing! (sp?) Then it's on the painter for a coat of paint!

Stopped by a gas tank fabricator to get an estimate on making a second tank (only one arrived with the truck!); the estimate was from $400 to $500 USD so shed a tear and wrote that one off the list!

Dropped off the engine heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, and some more major engine parts at the stripper for cleaning. Hope to get them back either tomorrow or Monday for repainting by ourselves.

Sent a helper over to a local auto supply store to pick up engine oil, anti-freeze, brake fluid, cleaning rags, and enough other stuff to start my own branch of that store!

Also picked up some engine flush to clean out any remaining rust from the system. This followed a final thorough probing of the deepest, darkest recesses of the water jacket after which my engine guy opined that we ought to give it a try first before making a decision to have the engine professionally cleaned.

Cleaned off all the red paint off the oil pan that had been added just previous to my purchasing the engine. Will give it a coat of Ford engine green paint tomorrow.

Checked on the status of the springs. All springs and shackles are ready but a set of the front rear mounts are being repaired/fabricated as well as some of the pins and bushings. Hopefully all will be ready by early next week. As it stands now, not having these will be preventing us from doing much of anything more to either the brake sysem or installing the engine for a test run. (Don't have an engine test stand. )

Has been over 110 F the past two days so quit work at 2:30 PM today.

Regards,
Jim

[peter simundson]

Send me a photo of the gas tank you have. I may have found a new one but I want to see what you have,
Peter S

[Jim Price]

Peter:
Thanks for responding to my note regarding the gas tank. The tank is 32" long by 12" wide by 10" tall. Attached are a couple of pictures of the one I have. Let me know if yours is the same; if it is, I would be interested in purchasing it.

Regards,
Jim

[Mike K]

Jim

Brian Asbury ( CMP parts dealer in Toronto ? ) at one time , had the Ford type plate that sits atop the tank with the reserve tap and fuel gauge sending unit hole . I bought one from him years ago. I'll never use it as I ended up with a correct Chev one later on ( got this from D. Ballard of MCC and F15 fame ).

Like u I have one original tank, the other is a dummy ,I was going to make another tank, but never got around to it , hence my interest in finding the top plate .

From memory the Ford version is a die cast alloy and the Chev is brass affair . They have different setup for each style of fuel gauge sender unit .

You could probably modify an existing standard CMP tank , remove the filler neck and relocate it . But even the normal tanks are very difficult to find these days .

Mike

PS if u want the ford plate PM me . But I think there is a RH and LH version, just to complicate things .. isnt anything easy .. no .

[Jim Price]

Mike:
Thanks for responding to my posting! The plate on my tank is brass and the switch does not work. It's stuck on Main but the tube to the tank section is plugged?!?! I sure could use the one you have. Please advise total cost, including shipping.

Regards,
Jim

[Tony Smith]

Dirk Leegwater still shows his fuel tank plates on his site as "On Sale" (along with some other F8 stuff!). Listed under Canadian Military Parts, then Ford Vehicles.

[Mike K]

Jim

You need to check your plate to see if it's a chevy one. I believe Ford used a totally different fuel gauge system, with a thermo bi metal arm and points device at each end e.g., sender and gauge . The chev system is a more conventional method with a wiper arm on a wire , thus variable resistance .

From memory, the Chev sending unit has 5 holes and the Ford 6 holes .
Mike

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Jim

From memory the Ford version is a die cast alloy and the Chev is brass affair.

You need to check your plate to see if it's a Chevy one.

Mike/Jim, the die cast alloy plate is the Chev version, the Ford is Brass.

Pic of the Chev cover:

[Jim Price]

Mike and Tony:
Thanks for the info; looks like my plate is a Ford brass one.

Mike: As for the plate you have for sale, I'm waiting on a reply from Peter S. on the tank he has for sale to see if it's the one I need and whether it has the plate. Will let you know if I need yours when I hear from him.

Regards,
Jim

[Jim Price]

More odds and ends to report:

Picked up all the parts from the painter on Day 51; temp stood at 118 F so didn't even bother to unload the second pickup truck bed of parts! Locked it up and let it set until Day 53.

Took Day 52 off.

Dried out the tires and tubes where we'd got water in them while washing the tires.

Wire brushed all the head bolt studs, all 48, and then did the same to the head bolt nuts.

Brushed the valves clean and added some lithum grease in the stems to take care of the initial lubrication when we start the engine up.

Wire brushed all the bolts for the oil pan, intake manifold and water pumps.

Still no word from the spring shop so reassembly of the axles and brake system is on hold.

No word from the steel fabricator on cutting of the windshield frame. Probably not a high priority item with them....

Began reassembly of the engine by re-installing the heads, intake manifold and water pumps.

Got up early this morning and painted the lug nuts. Got to them before it got too hot. Will add a clear coat to them tomorrow morning.

Down to one helper and myself; the other called in early this morning with a bad back. Called this afternoon and should be able to some painting tomorrow. He's a college student and I'll need to replace him by the 20th of this month when he goes back to school. He's got a great work ethic and it'll be tough to find someone as good!

Rained this morning and the humidity was fierce today along with a temp above 105 F.

That's all for now!

Regards,
Jim

[Mike K]

jim is putting us to shame .. he's going to have that F8 going before any of us can blink.

The CHEV fuel tank plates are BRASS .... believe me . Mine is anyway . The alloy die cast plate I got from Brian A still had its Ford tag on it .

Tony, in that pic you posted, you can see the GM AC Delco sender unit , it is a half round shape . The Ford sender units, are 100% round on top , not a semi circular shape .
I may be wrong , but check your parts books . Whats confusing is , the early Chev parts book ( eg C8 ) lists Ford part numbers on some parts . The tank plates may have Ford numbers , but they are Chev parts.

Mike

[Mike K]

here is a scan from the C8 parts list, showing the Ford part numbers for the tank plates ....

Mike

[Jim Price]

Mike:
Do you (or any other reader of this message) know if there's any difference in size between the Chevrolet and Ford tanks? The tank that came with my F8 measures 32" long by 12" wide by 10" high.

Regards,
Jim