15-cwt GS trailer saved from scrapyard

[Grant Bowker]

Recently a fellow MLU member (I leave it to him to decide whether he wants to be identified) was searching an Eastern Ontario scrapyard for Jeeps and Jeep parts. He didn't find what he was hoping for but did see an unusual trailer. He didn't need the trailer himself but dropped a hint that one of the Hammond barn crew might be interested in having a look. My thanks for the hint. The 15CWT GS trailer is now in the Hammond area. There were also the rough remains of a CGT FAT4 in the yard. The only real value in this would be a few parts. Wheels and axles, flywheel housing, nose metal, brake levers, etc. An indication of the perceived value was that the owner was willing to sell it for what he would get for scrap metal, the trailer was several times scrap value so he did have an idea of things value. The yard owner has offered to let me know if he comes across other CMP. He is not interested in selling parts, but might sell the complete vehicle then rebuy the residue after parts have been removed (naturally he buys and sells at different prices - he has expenses and family to feed).

The trailer was manufactured by Brantford Coach and Body .
The chassis seems fairly good and mainly complete. The fenders have been cut off. The master cylinder and linkage have been removed along with the handbrake lever but most of the rest of the brake system is present. The master will be the easiest part to source as it is still available new at reasonable prices from numerous sources. The linkage for both the master cylinder and between parking brake and relay shaft will need reproduction or originals found. The parking brake cables have been cut so will need replacement. They were a Ford part number so might be findable except that they are Canadian numbered and similar parts in the F15A parts book have the * meaning peculiar to CMP. Do people have hints on what they have found as good substitutes? A spare handbrake lever assembly is already waiting (it 's a standard Ford lever, known to match trailers so was bought on spec). The lighting system is mainly missing but with enough traces to allow reproduction once the light units are found. The biggest puzzle about the chassis is that someone spent quite a bit of effort reinforcing the tongue. It was acknowledged in the AEDB design record that trailer tongues tended to fail at the front edge of the body so it is easy to understand the desire to strengthen the trailer if it was planned to overload it. Two lengths of channel of similar size to the original tongue have been added on each side between the front spring hangers and the coupler assembly, one with the open side facing outward, the other with the open side facing down. Does anyone have information on whether this was a military modification or post-war? (Careful paint sanding might tell me something on this.)

The basic body is present including the tailgate but missing the flare boards. The floor and under frame look like they may be usable although some of the mounting bolts were changed due to the reinforcing steel added to the tongue. The side panels and headboard are in poor shape but good enough to be usable as patterns. They are thankfully relatively simple shapes to make and assemble. Photos of original trailers suggest the flare boards are about the same thickness as the top of the main body. Does anyone have better information about dimensions and construction of the flare boards to permit reproduction? Were the hinge rods for the flare boards 4 individual segments or one long rod each side? The adjustment brackets and support rods are also a puzzle.

Photos to follow, but I want to do some work today on dent removal from a CMP door.

[rob love]

I have the remains of one of those bodies. It is relatively rust free but they cut the sides to make it narrower. Metal is all solid. I use it for my scrap metal bin...I can take some photos next time I empty the scrap. Floor was solid as I recall.

[Grant Bowker]

Thanks Rob, photos and if possible enough measurements to give a good estimate of construction where it is not evident for the upper extensions that I'm missing would be appreciated.

____________________________________________

Photos from the AEDB record attached to provide comparison to what I have.

[Grant Bowker]

Photos, as recovered.
All 4 of the footman loop locations were punched to take a larger size in addition to that installed, presumably to allow for alternate supplies.

[Grant Bowker]

more photos

[Grant Bowker]

The modified/reinforced tongue. The quality of the welding suggests a postwar Bubba-bilt modification to allow overloads. They pulled hard enough to generate cracking at the front plate of the tongue and distort the large castle nut on the drawbar eye. I would be interested to know if anyone has seen service bulletins for CMP trailers to parallel those for the trucks and whether drawbar modifications are mentioned. The added channel below the tongue required removal of the original steps just ahead of the box, no sign they were ever replaced.

[Grant Bowker]

I would also be curious whether anyone knows the purpose of the cutout in the tailgate that shows the remains of hinges above it, presumably for an outward opening flap. Such a flap would let small cargo flow out but if the hinges were free enough would open by gravity as the tailgate opened. possibly as a step?

[Grant Bowker]

Photos are of Bob Carriere's 20 cwt made by Dominion Truck Equipment as part of the China Aid Contract.
This batch of photos to show the unreinforced (matching the manual) tongue.

[Grant Bowker]

More of Bob's 20cwt trailer. He has mounted a 1 cu m water tank for use around the property.

[rob love]

Here is a shot of mine back when I dragged it home.


http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sten...f0052.jpg.html
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...r/Dscf0052.jpg

[Alex van de Wetering]

Great addition to the stable, Grant.

I would also be curious whether anyone knows the purpose of the cutout in the tailgate that shows the remains of hinges above it

It reminded me of the US M10 Ammo trailer, which has a similar, but larger, cutout in the tailgate. With the M10 the cutout is to clear the tow hitch, allowing to tow trailers in tandem, but that doesn't seem to be the case with the 15cwt(?).

Clive posted some 15cwt pics in this thread: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7870
It's hard to see if these trailers have the cutout and flap as well.

I think a step wouldn't make sense as the hinges are at the wrong side. Could this trailer have had special purpose, where something long was stored in the centre of the body, like a mortar tube, radio mast? .....or maybe a panel to allow a cable and socket to be fed through from a generator set, sitting inside the body???

Alex

[Grant Bowker]

Based on the SB-5 parts and maintenance manual, I believe the 20cwt was designed to allow a rear tow hook but that the 15cwt was not. I see no holes on my 15cwt frame to indicate a tow hook having been installed. I haven't measured but don't believe the cutout is large enough to clear a typical CMP tow hook.

[rob love]

Looking back at my posts when I found the trailer, it had provision for a rear tow hook.

[Dave Schindel]

I bought an F15 cab 11 and when I picked it up the previous owner gave me what he said was a trailer axle.I didn't know for sure until I saw this thread.What I have is the complete axle,springs and spring mounts for one of these trailers.It even has the convoy disc bolted to the axle tube.
Good Thread!

[Grant Bowker]

The axle is specified as 2-3/4" square, solid. The springs are described as "as formerly used on Ford CMP trucks".
On edit: Based on the C01Q part number, the springs were sourced from the F30 parts bin along with quite a few other parts in the trailer parts list.

[Harry Moon]

I really lucked out when I found mine, only missing the bottom of the landing legs and rear hitch.

[Grant Bowker]

My thanks to all who have provided photos and leads.
I'm still short on information about the upper, movable part of the sides of the earlier 15cwt trailers. All help will be appreciated.
The photos of the later 20cwt bodies will be particularly useful if I can persuade Bob that he needs to manufacture a body for his 20cwt frame and more photos of all three bodies (early 15cwt, composite 20cwt and steel 20cwt) will always be useful to understand their construction.

[Bob Carriere]

Lucky find Harry

Exactly what I woudl like to build for my existing frame......

Three questions..... what size tires do you have.....?

and is all the trailer box bolted together rather than welded????

Who is the trailer made by.... any tags?

Only hard part to replicate is the sunburst rib pattern in the head board.... we do have a bead roller but no dies for that large a bead.

Cheers

[Harry Moon]

Mine was made by dominion, china aid, #276 I think. I pulled the split rim and drums off and put CMP wheels and 750x20 tires on. The brake drums are a strait swap.bolted together.

[Jason Ginn]

Glad you were able to save it Grant!

It looks so much better now!

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Harry

Mine as a China label as well will need to check out what number I have.

So on the wheels.... you removed the 20 inch split rims complete with the brake drum and the CMP brake drum & bearings were the same and just bolted on......

So you are running 16 or 20 inch tires and if 20 in. ......the civilian 7:50x20 tires were wide enough for the CMP rims???

One more thing.... on your trailer... can you take a picture of the same front corner but from inside the box..... curious about the bolting arragenment.

Thanks

[Grant Bowker]

The attached photo is if Bob's "Aid to China" 20cwt trailer data plate, hopefully the data plate is readable

[Grant Bowker]

As part of the process to register the trailer for road use (trying to be legal and register promptly rather than waiting for work to be completed) the trailer was taken to a local weigh scale to be weighed (Ontario wants a statement of weight if 900kg or over for a manufactured trailer or for any "homebuilt" trailer). I was expecting the empty trailer to be close to 900kg and that is what the scale said.
I had decided to use the original tires and as we set out, it became clear that one was severely flat spotted from sitting. 20km/hr to limit the bouncing, shaking and wobbling. The attached photo is the result of 14 km at the low speed without load. I had been planning to replace the tires, now I won't have a choice.