Early CMPs in NW Europe

[Pete Ashby]

Moderator's note: thread split off from Chevy 15cwt id please.... and further merged with related threads

This picture may have appeared before on this forum but it's worth another look, something here that connects both our interests Rick…………….. C15A 12 cab with round hip ring and a D60L………………. the picture is taken in Normandy 1944 and is IWM Ref 137301

Pete

[Barry Churcher]

Thanks Pete for posting the very interesting photo of the 12 cab with the hip ring.
Cheers,
Barry

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
This picture may have appeared before on this forum but it's worth another look, something here that connects both our interests Rick…………….. C15A 12 cab with round hip ring and a D60L………………. the picture is taken in Normandy 1944 and is IWM Ref 137301

Pete, excellent picture!

Found the picture below at http://beeldbank.zeeuwsebibliotheek.nl, it shows another Ford/Chev Cab 11/12 4x4 15-cwt truck in service in NW Europe. The picture was taken on 21 Nov 1944 at IJzendijke during the battle of the Scheldt. Credit: Public Archives of Canada, PA-41774.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Found the picture below at http://beeldbank.zeeuwsebibliotheek.nl, it shows another Ford/Chev Cab 11/12 4x4 15-cwt truck in service in NW Europe. The picture was taken on 21 Nov 1944 at IJzendijke during the battle of the Scheldt. Credit: Public Archives of Canada, PA-41774.

Here´s a slightly larger version of this picture from www.beeldbankwo2.nl:

Beeldgegevens
Beeldnummer: 72248
Collectie: Nederlands Instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie
Bijschrift: Canadese soldaten in Nederland.
Canadian vehicles roll mile after mile past barren countryside, through muddy roads, past flooded area and over Canadian Engineer constructed bridges, as our boys move up to come to grips with the enemy at the frontier.
Trefwoorden: Bevrijding; Bruggen; Canadese Strijdkrachten; Geallieerden; Militairen - Zie ook: Officieren, Soldaten; Voertuigen
Geografie: Nederland
Beeldsoort: Foto
Gewijzigd: 16-03-2001

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
This picture may have appeared before on this forum but it's worth another look, something here that connects both our interests Rick…………….. C15A 12 cab with round hip ring and a D60L………………. the picture is taken in Normandy 1944 and is IWM Ref 137301

Another 12 cab in Normandy, Pegasus Bridge.

What type is this? Tipper?

H.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

"A 7th Armoured Division lorry being recovered after crashing into an exposed cellar, near Sittard, 20 December 1944."


source

[Jordan Baker]

I hope that wasn't the soldiers head that cracked the window.

Anyway, great pictures as it is always nice to see the roofs of trucks.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

I hope that wasn't the soldiers head that cracked the window.

Anyway, great pictures as it is always nice to see the roofs of trucks.

Had to be the passenger as the truck is right-hand drive. The driver had the steering wheel to hang on to. Rick

[Alex van de Wetering]

I had a chat with Dirk Leegwater a few weeks ago, about cab 12's in Dutch vehicle dumps in 1945. My father came across the picture attached in the book "De Jeep in Nederland". It shows the dump in Deelen and shows at least one Chev 15cwt cab12. It seems at least someone tried to keep the cab12 in action and replaced the window at some stage.
I also attached two enlarged segments of the same picture, which seem to show two other Cab 11,12's, although it is hard to see......it might also be two cab 13's with the windows open(?).

Alex

[Lang]

Wonder why half the trucks have a left headlight and half have a right. Probably some dreamworld instruction which said to remove a headlight to reduce the chance of being spotted at night! They obviously didn't do a good job and failed to say which light. I wonder how many head on collisions they had when oncoming drivers had to decide whether a truck had his centre light on or was actually in the middle of the road with his outside light on?

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Lang

Wonder why half the trucks have a left headlight and half have a right. Probably some dreamworld instruction which said to remove a headlight to reduce the chance of being spotted at night! They obviously didn't do a good job and failed to say which light. I wonder how many head on collisions they had when oncoming drivers had to decide whether a truck had his centre light on or was actually in the middle of the road with his outside light on?

Good question Lang-

As I understand the reason for a single headlight dates to early in the war when Blackout night driving was the rule. Pattern 13 CMPs were supplied with a single headlight equipped with a black out cover. If vehicle was in British control area (Drive on the left) the headlight was installed in the left side headlight position, as I understand it to provide the minimal lighting to see the left verge of the road. When operating in a US Army area of control (drive on the right) the light would be installed in the right hand position again to give the drive the best light to keep to the right verge. At some point the Pattern 13 were supplied with two head lights. These were switch individually wired so that the one with black out cover had to be turned on first, and then the second switch turned on the clear light.

Once black out rules were lifted then I assume some of the earlier CMPs had a second head light installed. I have heard that once on the continent the rule was drive on the right. Some units may have changed over single head light to the right while others may have left it in the left position and removed the black out covers and kept the headlight in the right position the better to light the entire road.

Just to confuse things of about the clear headlight, they started black out headlights with covers with the swing cover door to make the lights more convertible.

My late `45 HUP has the two headlights and two switches with a blackout headlight mounted in the right position. Having driven my HUP on many blackout trail rides I have tried both sides for the black out head light and given the choice I sure the drivers mounted the black out headlight on the driver’s side. From personal experience I can tell you that when driving with black out lights they drove with the window shield either part open or full open the better to see the road. In tight/narrow road condition black out road speeds are low rarely out of second gear.

There is some great information about driving under blackout conditions I believe in the New Zealand archives, I try and find the link to it. Some really wonderful descriptions of blackout convoys in North Africa.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
"A 7th Armoured Division lorry being recovered after crashing into an exposed cellar, near Sittard, 20 December 1944."

Great to see an early CMP in action in NW Europe!

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's a nice pic I found recently in a book on the city of Rotterdam during WW2. It shows the headquarters of a Canadian Army unit set up at the Heemraadssingel, Rotterdam, May 1945.

If you look closely you will see a myriad of interesting vehicles: C8A's (HUW?), Bedford QL, Cab 13 15-cwt, Chevrolet K-51 Panel Van, and two Cab 11 or 12 15-cwt's (one water tanker), showing those early CMPs did soldier on during the NW Europe campaign.

H.


click here for a large size scan

[Sam Alderlieste]

Here's a nice pic I found recently in a book on the city of Rotterdam during WW2

Ins't the vehicle at the right a dodge ?? (with the big star on the hood)
Kinda looks like a WC54...

Grz,

Sam.

[cliff]

Originally posted by Sam Alderlieste
Ins't the vehicle at the right a dodge ?? (with the big star on the hood)
Kinda looks like a WC54...

It is a Chevrolet K-51 wireless panel van. Based on the Chevrolet 4X4 1.5 ton chassis with dual wheels at the rear.

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by cliff

It is a Chevrolet K-51 wireless panel van. Based on the Chevrolet 4X4 1.5 ton chassis with dual wheels at the rear.

Here's a rare shot of a Canadian contingent with their K 51s loaded onto a ship bound for England, I assume.

[gordon]

Those are similar sized trucks, but lighter.

No dual rear wheels, no extended fenders, no side boxes for radio gear, ordinary half to one ton chevrolet or even Dodge I think. They don't look like they are packed for international shipment either - looks more like a river or channel crossing rather than trans-Atlantic.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

1/5th Bn. The Queens Royal Regiment liberating Ghent (Belgium).

Looks like a Chevrolet Cab 12 3-tonner.

Source: http://www.desertrats.org.btinternet...artefacts2.htm

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Sam Alderlieste
Ins't the vehicle at the right a dodge ?? (with the big star on the hood)
Kinda looks like a WC54...

Sam,

I included a close up of the Chevrolet K51 panel van. The box on the side is unique to this wireless truck.

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
If you look closely you will see a myriad of interesting vehicles: C8A's (HUW?), Bedford QL, Cab 13 15-cwt, Chevrolet K-51 Panel Van, and two Cab 11 or 12 15-cwt's (one water tanker), showing those early CMPs did soldier on during the NW Europe campaign.

Here's a closer (though not better) look of the 15-cwt CMP's.

The truck in the middle seems to be a 3-tonner GS with makeshift doors in the back.

Hanno

[Sam Alderlieste]

It is a Chevrolet K-51

Thx Cliff, didn't know that.

Grz,

Sam.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Sam Alderlieste
Thx Cliff, didn't know that.

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra on December 23rd 2007

If you look closely you will see a myriad of interesting vehicles: C8A's (HUW?), Bedford QL, Cab 13 15-cwt, Chevrolet K-51 Panel Van, and two Cab 11 or 12 15-cwt's (one water tanker)

[Alex van de Wetering]

Here is another picture of two cab 12's in Normandy. They are hard to see on this small picture from the IWM website, but it is published in full page format in one of the Heimdal books on the Normandy battle.

Alex

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205206103

source: www.iwmcollections.org.uk

edit 2-may-2018. Bigger image and updated link

[gordon]

Chevrolet ran off a relatively small batch of the basic vans, maybe 4000 or so, 3,658 of which went to a sub-contractor to be converted to K51's. Hence the unconverted basic panel van is now rarer than the rare K 51. Erik Jostad has / had the nice basic van pictured.




All the K 51s came with a generator in a Ben Hur one ton two wheel trailer. All those generator trailers had a 7.50 x 20 spare slung under the back, because there was no room for one in the truck, thus the trailer carried the one spare wheel for the whole combination.

Some of the original van spare wheel mounts were torched off during the conversion and the cut ends are still on the K 51's, others were completely removed ( even the stub would be a big lump of metal to waste ) You can see from the van picture that the original spare was slung just where one of the large side boxes went.

[Les Freathy]

A 8cwt Ford CO11 utility with British built body by Mullineror Stewart and Ardern, photo taken somewhere in Belgium could be Brussels
cheers
Les

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Les Freathy

A 8cwt Ford CO11 utility with British built body by Mullineror Stewart and Ardern, photo taken somewhere in Belgium could be Brussels

Looks like there's a couple more here (source: http://www.cegesoma.be):

Scenes in Brussels. Little is seen of this British tank when the people of Brussels swarmed onto it as it passed through the liberated city, Taken by Sgt Midgley (September 1944)

[Alex van de Wetering]

Great picture! That shows that at least two vans made it to NWE.

Alex

[Colin R]

WAH!!! still no C8 wireless trucks in NWE!!!

[Alex van de Wetering]

A 8cwt Ford CO11 utility with British built body by Mullineror Stewart and Ardern, photo taken somewhere in Belgium could be Brussels

Wow. Nice shot! Good to see that at least one of them made the jump over the channel.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Alex, Les,

Thanks to you both for adding those interesting pictures!

Hanno