British GMC CCKW?

[Lionel Marco]

Hi!

I'm looking for any informations about the use by British/Commonwealth armies of the GMC CCKW353, and more specifically the unit sthat used this truck in NWE for troop transportation...

Thanks in advance, and please excuse me for my bad english

Lionel Marco

[Pete Ashby]

Lionel

try this forum they may have an answer for you http://disc.server.com/Indices/183912.html

Regards

Pete

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Lionel,

As far as I know only the CCKW-352 was used - see the thread "GMC CCKW-352 2½-ton 6x6 truck in Commonwealth service" on the old MLU Forum.

Hope this helps,
Hanno

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Because of the Outrage that Mr W-B mentioned, my posting got wiped! Here is the link to my latest version of the British GMC listing but be prepared as it is a big file!
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...alk/wargmc.htm

If anyone can confirm whether the 6 x 6 units were -352 or -353 models I shall be grateful. Note the ex-US ones that might have been -353 models.

The searchlight generator trucks are a mystery to me..there is the famous photo in HERITAGE COMMERCIALS magazine of Pearson's Garege in Liverpool circa 1943 with two GMC tractor-trailer units, lhd, with permanently attached Caterpillar diesels and generator units. I have no evidence whatsoever about these aprt from this obscure contract.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
If anyone can confirm whether the 6 x 6 units were -352 or -353 models I shall be grateful. Note the ex-US ones that might have been -353 models.

Below follow the references I found on GMC CCKW-352 2½-ton 6x6 truck in Commonwealth service:

"The GMC CCKW-352 2½-ton 6x6 truck was also produced for allied forces, incl. at least 400 for the United Kingdom" [Bart Vanderveen, Historic Military Vehicles Directory, p.353]. I do not know when these trucks were exactly ordered, but somehow I think this was early during the war when Britain was frantically trying to make good the Dunkirk losses? If my assumption is correct, these British CCKW-352s were fitted with closed cabs (transition from the closed to open cab took place from August, 1942 until late in April (possibly early May) 1943).

As the CCKW-352's intended main role was artillery towing, "the British pressed a number into service as Bofors 40-mm light AA gun tractors. With no special stowage arrangements the ammunition was simply stowed at the forward end of the body with a spare barrel down the middle, the crew using the standard hinged slatted seats" [John Church, Military Vehicles of World War 2, p.93].

There is also mention of two batteries of the 93rd Anti-Tank Regiment in Italy, "receiving U.S. 2½-ton trucks in place of the British tractors used for towing their guns" in August 1943. (note: in June '43 the 93rd converted to a new establishment of four batteries, one self-propelled and three towed, of which one had 17-pounders with Mark II carriages and the other two 6-pounders) [C.H. Bogart, 'The 93rd Anti-Tank Regiment'. AFV News, Vol.32, No.1, January-April 1997, p.8].

So it seems the CCKW-352 in British service was definitely used as a tractor for the the Bofors 40-mm AA gun, whilst 17- and/or 6-pdr AT guns seem to have been towed as well. As far as I can ascertain, no 25-pdr field guns were towed by Commonwealth CCKW-352's during WW2.

[Rolf S. Ask]

Have attached a picture I took a few Years back of a GMC 352 with 40 mm Bofors.
Don't remember if the Bofors was english or US produced, but am quit sure the truck had a plate on the rear of the body stating it was for towing 40 mm Bofors. Will check out some pictures that I have not scanned before....
BTW. The GMC is an early one with "sivilian" instruments, no winch, and banjo axels. And as far as I know this is the least produced GMC 352's. And it had once been dessert yellow under many layers of OD paint.

Rolf

[Lionel Marco]

Hi!

Once again, thanks you all for your fast and precise answers.

See you

Lionel

[DaveCox]

Hey, this is great. I come back onto MLU for the first time in months, and there's a thread on the very subject i was after info. on.
I'm about to start a model of a CCKW352 in British service as an artillery tractor and I find all the info I need to research markings. I'll look up units that may have used it as a bofors tractor and also the 93rd A/T.
A fellow modeler and CMP nut in Australia has kindly sent me copies of his own drawings for the conversion from a --353.

Thanks Guys.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
So it seems the CCKW-352 in British service was definitely used as a tractor for the the Bofors 40-mm AA gun, whilst 17- and/or 6-pdr AT guns seem to have been towed as well.

The picture below was taken in Scarfati, Italy and is believed to be a towed AT Regt of the 7th Armd Div in Sept. 1943.

Who has more pictures like this?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Nick Balmer]

Hello Hanno,

This very interesting photo has featured before in a number of conversations at the Cambridge branch of the MAFVA over the years.

We have often wondered if it was either a GMC 2.5 tonner or perhaps a Diamond T 4 tonner.

Is there something diagnostic about the rear of either of these types of trucks that would definitely resolve the identification question.

It must have been quite a burden on these trucks to pull a 17 pdr laden.

The Poles had a lot of GMC's in Italy including some very colourful two tone ones in their Sapper units.

Regards

Nick Balmer

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Nick Balmer
Is there something diagnostic about the rear of either of these types of trucks that would definitely resolve the identification question.

Hi Nick,

Well, the GMC had 7.50-20 tyres while the Diamond T 6x6 4 Ton Cargo had 9.00-20 tyres. To my eyes the tyres in the picture look like 7.50-20's.

Any pics of those Polish GMC's you can share? Those very colourful two-tone ones could very well be painted in scheme using bold patterns of black, or SCC7 (a dark olive green), over a base of SCC.5 "Light Mud".

Cheers,
Hanno

[jim sewell]

Originally posted by Nick Balmer
This very interesting photo has featured before in a number of conversations at the Cambridge branch of the MAFVA over the years.

We have often wondered if it was either a GMC 2.5 tonner or perhaps a Diamond T 4 tonner.

Is there something diagnostic about the rear of either of these types of trucks that would definitely resolve the identification question.

Looking at the pic that I have attached you will notice that the duals have a wider spacing between each tyre ( this vehicle is a Studebaker , same wheels as GMC ) than the picture previously shown , so this vehicle may not be a GMC , although the tray is identical to a late model wood tray fitted to GMC's.
Jim S.

[jim sewell]

Picture of a late type GMC body .

[jim sewell]

Picture of a Diamond T , most likely a longer wheel base than the one that may have been used as a tractor , these duals may be closer together ?

Jim S.

[Nick Balmer]

Hello Hanno,

Please find below a copy of the photograpgh I referred to earlier of the two tone GMC being used by Polish Sappers in Italy . It comes from "Od Acromy Do Zwyciezcy" by Andrzej Kaminsk, probably orginally from the Sikorski Collection.

There are several volumes in this series, and I cannot recommend it to highly if like me, you enjoy photographs of the rarer and more unusual trucks in use in World War II.

Regards

Nick Balmer

[Nick Balmer]

Hello Hanno,

From the same book as before.

Regards

Nick Balmer

[Nick Balmer]

Hello Hanno,

One last GMC(?) photo from the same book, but this time from the HQ Squadron, Workshop Platoon of the Carpathian Lancers Regiment.

The Poles also had Studebakers, so I am not entirely sure if these are GMC's or Studebakers, as my knowledge of the rear bodies is not comprehensive enough to tell the difference.

Perhaps somebody who has spent months restoring one can tell the difference.

Regards

Nick Balmer

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Nick Balmer
Please find below a copy of the photograpgh I referred to earlier of the two tone GMC being used by Polish Sappers in Italy . It comes from "Od Acromy Do Zwyciezcy" by Andrzej Kaminsk, probably orginally from the Sikorski Collection.

Nick,

Thanks for these pics! So the Polish used them as Cargo trucks.

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
There is also mention of two batteries of the 93rd Anti-Tank Regiment in Italy, "receiving U.S. 2½-ton trucks in place of the British tractors used for towing their guns" in August 1943.

I have now found an even earlier quote of GMC CCKW's in British use in Wheels & Tracks magazine no.53, p.37: "I [R.D.(Dick) Okill] went out to the Middle East for El Alamein and joined the 37th LAA which had come down from Syria and we re-equipped with American Bofors guns and some 6x6 GMCs as towers, with American Ford 3-tonners and one Morris artillery tractor."

H.

[alleramilitaria]

it must say something for my poor morris 15CWT if it could do the same job as the CCKW (pulling the 17pdr ATG).

[Les Freathy]

I have dug out a few pics of GMCs in British service the first i would imagine is in Italy but it is possible that they could be in the Polish unit serving out there

[Les Freathy]

IT is quite well known that certain british units used the FWD HAR-1 4 ton trucks and US built trailers to mount smoke generators but they were also issued with a small number of SWB GMCs for the same purpose. Unfortunatly nothing can be seen regarding markings
Les

[Noel Burgess]

I have just found some notes I made from information in "Army Transport 1939-45" which, as most of you will probably know, was a reprint of "Databook of wheeled vehicles 5th ed." [I no longer have a copy]

For CCKW this includes both 12' and 9' cargo bodies and petrol tankers

The book also lists the following Studebaker 2.5T 6X6 on 162" WB
GS
750 (US)Gal Tanker (SM 2218)
Stores (SM 2296)
Workshop (SM 2440)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Noel Burgess
I have just found some notes I made from information in "Army Transport 1939-45" which, as most of you will probably know, was a reprint of "Databook of wheeled vehicles 5th ed." [I no longer have a copy]

I have - good thinking!

Sadly the Data Book of Wheeled Vehicles: Army Transport 1939-1945 does not mention S.M. numbers for the GMCs.

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[Bryan L]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Sadly the Data Book of Wheeled Vehicles: Army Transport 1939-1945 does not mention S.M. numbers for the GMCs.

Hi Hanno,
I realise it's a bit of an old thread, and you may well have this information via other means, but the Databook of RAF Vehicles (AP2782 Vol.1) gives the S.M. number for the GMCs they used.
I believe 51 MT Company (later Squadron) used them in North Africa and the Middle East.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

http://www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/gmclist.htm
http://www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/chevylist.htm

That's all the GMC and Chevrolets known to me but there may be more!

Do you want the Ford, Dodge, Fargo listings as well?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
"I [R.D.(Dick) Okill] went out to the Middle East for El Alamein and joined the 37th LAA which had come down from Syria and we re-equipped with American Bofors guns and some 6x6 GMCs as towers, with American Ford 3-tonners and one Morris artillery tractor."

I presume these were part of the shipments of American equipment rushed out to North Africa to help the British stem the tide.

I have not been able to locate a picture of this combination in British service, but attached goes an early wartime picture of one in US service (those used by the British should be identical).

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Look! There's someone who was bored by US OD and actually read some history books...

Picture source: http://www.militaryvehiclephotos.com

[Lynn Eades]

Ford and Dodge as well, thankyou.
Lynn.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
I presume these were part of the shipments of American equipment rushed out to North Africa to help the British stem the tide.

Not in British service, but at least it shows a CCKW-352 in North Africa in it's intended role - towing the 105 mm howitzer.

H.

Description: Two-and-a-half ton truck towing an M2A1 (M101) 105 mm howitzer along the Algerian beach with troop ships in the background. World War II, North Africa, 1942-1943.
Source: http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id...m101_105mm.php