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#1
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Bren AA mount: help and more info needed
This picture is captioned as a Canadian designed anti aircraft mount in use with troops near Calais 1944.
I have several questions I'm trying to get answers for: Was this version of the Motley mount Canadian made? Can anyone help with further info and pictures of this mount being used so late in the war? There are many pictures from earlier in the war of Motley mounts on Cab12 15cwt trucks but is there any evidence as to what model it was mounted on by 1944? Thanks in advance for any help James Motley mount.png
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C15 TA 1944 Ford Lynx 1945 C8A HUP 1943 Willys MB Jeep 1942 New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project1) New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project2) |
#2
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This mount being used so late in the war? Very unlikely, in my opinion.
Helo James,
That is an intriguing photo, would you have a better scan and/or source for it? I find it hard to believe to see a Motley mount in action in NW Europe, seeing that the later and more potent "Polsten trucks" were quickly relegated to other duties once the Allies gained air superiority. But one never knows which equipment the Canadians held back unofficially and dragged across the Channel!
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#3
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Motley mount
Hi Hanno,
I was quite surprised as well when I saw it, the picture was originally posted years ago by Cletrac in a long thread on the Motley mounts. It was published in the William Gregg Profiles book in the section other anti aircraft weapons on the LAAT page and the caption is as previously mentioned. I'm not sure when this MK of mount dates from or what MK it is, unlike most of the other types it does not have the counterbalancing springs. I have taken another shot of the picture so hopefully its better and also put on another picture of the same mount but mounted on an unknown truck. James Motley 2.jpg Bren%20MG%202.jpg
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C15 TA 1944 Ford Lynx 1945 C8A HUP 1943 Willys MB Jeep 1942 New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project1) New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project2) |
#4
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I have just checked the census number 4255028 and that falls under numbers allocated to the Canadian army overseas upto 11th July 1943. So it is a Canadian truck.
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C15 TA 1944 Ford Lynx 1945 C8A HUP 1943 Willys MB Jeep 1942 New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project1) New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project2) |
#5
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This looks be the same type of mount.
https://www.militaryimages.net/media...a-mount.13424/ http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/738-british-motley-bren-mount/
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Jordan Baker RHLI Museum, Otter LRC C15A-Wire3, 1944 Willys MB, 1942 10cwt Canadian trailer |
#6
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crew
Would this be the origins of the slightly derisive term, a Motley crew?
Never the less, that is a neat piece of equipment to put as much .303 BR into the sky as possible. The drawback of course is the slow cyclic rate of the BREN.
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Terry Warner - 74-????? M151A2 - 70-08876 M38A1 - 53-71233 M100CDN trailer Beware! The Green Disease walks among us! |
#7
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Quote:
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#8
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bypassed Channel ports
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXqg-6YKU7Q
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Terry Warner - 74-????? M151A2 - 70-08876 M38A1 - 53-71233 M100CDN trailer Beware! The Green Disease walks among us! |
#9
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entomology. . . an earlier ‘Motley’ crew.
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#10
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In 1994 Brian , Les and I went to Portsmouth on our way to Normandy for the 50th. A gentleman there graciously let me spend about two hours in the back of his truck carefully getting detailed measurements and photos of his Motley Mount that came from Portugal. He said they were made in Canada but there was no identifier on it. I probably drove Les and Brian crazy going back all the time to check this thing out. I made two copies of it with the only difference being they were the mature model with the main pipe frame being a little longer for the tummy. It was just too cramped. The one in the photo with my daughter Dawn is the prototype and you can see the main pipe was made in sections to try and get the angles right. The second one was all one piece.
Dawn's picture is in the back of Mel Norwick's 8cwt and I think Hanno has a better photo of that truck. I need some ideas of what I could use for a rubber eye piece. Barry |
#11
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Barry.
Are there any rubber boots out there in Vehicleland, for fitting over cables and levers, that would be a suitable size and could be trimmed to work? David |
#12
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Barry,
The rubber eye piece is probably the same as on any tank sight. My Polsten was fitted with one and in the old days of MV shows you would often see them on stalls for sale over here. Interesting that the owner of the Bedford who I think is/was Colin Brooks said it was made in Canada. This could be the reason it is listed as a MK1 but bares no similarity to the British MK1. Is there any museum or army organisation in Canada who might have more information? Thanks James
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C15 TA 1944 Ford Lynx 1945 C8A HUP 1943 Willys MB Jeep 1942 New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project1) New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project2) |
#13
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Rubber bellows
Barry,
Try looking up some folding bellows used for flow equipment, who knows what you will find there. E.g. https://shop.eriks.nl/en/rubber-prod...parts-bellows/
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#14
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Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army
James,
You may want to see if this book https://servicepub.com/product/secre...-canadian-army has some info on this mounting? "Anti aircraft projects range from a quadruple Bren gun mounting which was overly complicated to a Canadian 20mm cannon on towed and lorry mountings..."
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#15
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Thanks Barry and Hanno,
The extra information helps. I does make sense that they used a cycle firm, you can see the similarities in some of the parts. I know of four of these mounts, one at Duxford, one in the Netherlands and two in private hands in the UK. James
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C15 TA 1944 Ford Lynx 1945 C8A HUP 1943 Willys MB Jeep 1942 New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project1) New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project2) |
#16
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"The Mounted Bren" #1/2
I made photos of the pages on "The Mounted Bren" from The Bren Gun Saga by Dugelby for research purposes.
No mention is made of the manufacturing of these in Canada. Despite the fact that this book is highly sought after (wow!), the information in this chapter certainly doesn't seem to be the final say on this topic. It doesn't differentiate very well between the various types of mounts that were made. Here's hoping someone can add to this. Dugelby p.138.jpg Dugelby p.139.jpg Dugelby p.140.jpg Dugelby p.140-141.jpg Dugelby p.141.jpg
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#17
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"The Mounted Bren" #2/2
Quote:
Dugelby p.142.jpg Dugelby p.143.jpg
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#18
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Bren brass catcher.
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#19
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#20
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Pre dates the ‘air-soft’ training.
Can anyone else hear the gunner calling out the shots? |
#21
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Here are the rest of the pictures from the series. Taken April 1943
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Jordan Baker RHLI Museum, Otter LRC C15A-Wire3, 1944 Willys MB, 1942 10cwt Canadian trailer |
#22
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I think the mount shown in the latest photos from Jordan might also be the ones used on the No. 1 Armoured Train, built in the CNR Transcona Shops in late 1942.
Attached photo of the two mounts is from Roger Lucy's book on the train. David |
#23
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Motley mount on Dutch Prinses Irene Brigade truck
In an earlier thread I posted a picture of a Motley mount in the back of a Dutch Army Ford WOT2 truck in Normandy, August 1944.
The scan in the archive has been updated and you can now zoom in on the picture for some great detail - click on the source link: Quote:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#24
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Thanks Hanno, great picture of the right mount!
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C15 TA 1944 Ford Lynx 1945 C8A HUP 1943 Willys MB Jeep 1942 New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project1) New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier 1943 (project2) |
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