Panther restoration (CWM)

[Bob Cohoon]

Just a note that the Panther tank ,foremerely at CFB Borden,is having quite a bit of work done to it in Ottawa, at the Canadian War Museum. It is in the large garage/shop area, and is visible through some access door windows leading into the main gallery.It is up on supports,and the tracks and some wheels have been removed for work.Also, I was told that the turret had also been removed for restoration work for a time, but it is back in place now.Apparently, the work should be completed by this January, hopefully.I read somewhere that it had been at Kingston originally,where someone had installed a different engine to get it running again.Then it was shifted to CFB Borden, where it has been for a long time.When captured, it was almost new.Anyone else know something about it?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

I'm pretty sure it (and most of all the other German vehicles in Canada) is one of Farley Mowat's 'collection'; at the end of the war he formed, completely without authorisation, an ad-hoc unit of scavengers and other ne'er-do-wells which he called the '1st Canadian War Museum Collection Team'. They then proceeded to range right across continental Europe to collect one of everything the Germans used in WW2 and ship it all back to Canada... it's really quite an amusing tale, albeit with a tragic end, but I won't tell you about THAT - buy 'My Father's Son' and read it cover to cover; you won't regret it!

[peter simundson]

The Panther at the War Museum is not listed on Farley Mowatt’s long list. The tank has not been re-engined and currently has the engine (original) out and apart. A beautiful big Maybach it is past the stage of rebuild without new sleeves, pistons crank etc. etc. so unless a replacement turns up it will never likely run as they are doing it as original as possible. This includes matching original interior paint colours (90% not white to my surprise). The turret basket and interior are out and are being restored but the turret itself is sitting on the tank. Believe it or not in order to preserve any original zimmerit or markings the entire tank was stripped with chemicals A very big job.
There was comment some time ago that the rear road wheels had been damaged when the tank was delivered and "dropped" off the trailer. NOT TRUE. The Museum hired a 75 ton mobile crane and had it very gently removed from the flatbed. At an expense of close to $2000.
Damage to the rear two road wheels is to the hubs only which have major cracks and must be remade ( or we can get two from the other Ontario Panther). When you see the damage it looks like the vehicle had been moved at a previous location, or set in location by using a chain and hook on the road wheel to turn the tank. Likely to avoid hooking it on to the back track and possibly pulling off the track.

[Col Tigwell]

may we have the ISBN of May Fathers Son.

Cannot pick it up on Amazon

Thanks

Col

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Col Tigwell
may we have the ISBN of May Fathers Son.

Cannot pick it up on Amazon

Thanks

Col

Farley Mowat is a great Canadain...
Here is the link you need..

http://www.amazon.com/My-Fathers-Son.../dp/0770425763

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

To begin to understand My Father's Son (and for that matter, Farley himself), you must read And no Birds Sang first, and preferably even before that, The Regiment. Of course, you could cheat and read a short summary of his life in Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farley_Mowat .... the war made him the man he became and still is today.

[Col Tigwell]

After a bit of confusion on the spelling of his surname, I could find the other books you quoted, but not the actual one you are talking about.

Now that is sorted, I will get them on order.

Appreciate as always your kind help.

Regards

Col

[Bob Cohoon]

Is there another Panther in Ontario??? I knew of only the CFB Borden one, and am very surprised to hear of another.Where is the other one located, and what model is it, please? It is really fortunate and far sighted that Farley Mowat undertook to accumulate some vehicles, as this is the basis of what we have in our best equipment examples from WWII, I believe.Thanks

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
I'm pretty sure it is one of Farley Mowat's 'collection'; at the end of the war he formed, completely without authorisation, an ad-hoc unit of scavengers and other ne'er-do-wells which he called the '1st Canadian War Museum Collection Team'.

Something you could put on your CV as "Best job I ever had"!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
I'm pretty sure it (and most of all the other German vehicles in Canada) is one of Farley Mowat's 'collection'; at the end of the war he formed, completely without authorisation, an ad-hoc unit of scavengers and other ne'er-do-wells which he called the '1st Canadian War Museum Collection Team'. They then proceeded to range right across continental Europe to collect one of everything the Germans used in WW2 and ship it all back to Canada...

He did a "tour" with the collection around Holland before everything was shipped home.

"This is a German V 2 rocket, on display in Holland.
It was the world's first intercontinental ballistic missile.
1945.
Somewhere in Holland"

Source: www.virtualmuseum.ca

[Bob Cohoon]

There is a V-1 ``buzz bomb``at a museum in Nova Scotia, maybe part of the artifacts brought back too.

[marco]

The V2 might have survived.

This one is still in Holland

Marco

[Frank L.]

Originally posted by enthusiastblue
There is a V-1 ``buzz bomb``at a museum in Nova Scotia, maybe part of the artifacts brought back too.

There was also one in the old Vimmy annex in the CWM before they moved to their new digs on Lebretton Flats.

I haven't seen it there though, it may be outback.

Regards

[peter simundson]

It's still there out with the Panther. Originally it was a piloted version, but many years ago some moron removed the pilot section and made it look like a normal V-1. Fortunately most of these parts were still inside. They intend to rebuild it one day. They also have two "Loons" which was the US version of the V-1 but it has a square air intake.
Not sure why we would have these. Never used them.
Don't think we even tested them.
Peter S

[Bob Cohoon]

I think there are artifacts that the public hasn`t seen as yet, as in visiting CFB Borden, and Longue Pointe supply base museums(Montreal), I was told that they have things in storage which they haven`t shown yet just due to lack of display space.The general public has only recently seen the contents of Vimy house,and even some of that is not on display in the LaBretton gallery, as I saw a B-25 upper turret and M48 tank turret with Vietnam? era markings, at Vimy house, and this is where now?

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Panther tank at CWM is the one from CFB Borden. I am not aware of a second one in Canada. Jim Whitham at CWM had Farley Mowat in last Nov (2006) and Farley seemed to think Panther was his, but was more interested in the V1. Jim Whitham had the transmission (?) out in November 2006. Bodren had allowed tank to deteriorate outside. Sheet metal in engine compartment in rough shape. Front axles (?) both cut. [OK, I'm an infantry officer, not an armoured officer so I don't know the technical terms for the tank parts.]

V1 at CWM is the piloted model. The CWM had the RCAF restore it as a regular V1 in the early 1960s I believe as that is what they wanted (!!!!). I asked the staff to find and put cockpit parts with it and they did so at Vimy House. In Nov she was next to the Panther with wings off and canopy sitting in place. I noted the angle markings on the side window(s). One of the current issue military magazines (fellow with flamethrower on cover) Nov 2007 WWII HISTORY Secret Reichemnberg Project - Nazi Kamikazes pages 36-39 and p. 90 (I do not own a copy).

V-2 was brought back to Canada and off-loaded and scientists took it apart. Empty shell of it last seem at Canadian National Exhibition next to a shiny new US rocket. We need Ontario boys to find it! Stangely, Canada developed rocket technology after WWII - I wonder where they got the ideas? (Same place as the Yanks!)

Yes, do read "MY FATHER'S SON" by Farley Mowat. Note on photo of the half-track with German crew one can read CDN. WAR MUS. on right side near rear corner!



Colin Stevens

[Bob Cohoon]

The location has not been disclosed as yet, but there is a second Panther in Ontario,mostly complete.We have to stay tuned for now.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by enthusiastblue
The location has not been disclosed as yet, but there is a second Panther in Ontario,mostly complete.We have to stay tuned for now.

Hey mate, would you mind giving us your name, please? On MLU there's no reason to have to hide behind an internet moniker.

Thanks,

Geoff

[Bob Cohoon]

Sure,it`s Bob Cohoon. Sorry,but I thought it was the practice to use a user name, but I see most people use their actual name.Sorry `bout that! I`ll try and modify this,although I`m not a computer whiz

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

As per our email exchange, it's done, Bob, and thanks! Welcome to MLU...

Jif

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

I am the Manager for the city museum of the oldest city in Western Canada and have worked in the museum field for over 35 years.

Sadly, almost all museums have most of their collection in storage. I often compare a museum to an iceberg - only about 10% shows. The bigger the museum, the more items in storage and sometimes the % of stored items is even higher. The Smithsonian for example has MILLIONS of artifacts, including over 500 stuffed bears and a huge number of pianos. Except for fanatics like us, most people are not interested in a row of 30 slightly different military jeeps or CMPs (or washing machines, coins, typewriters, lamps etc. )

The Canadian War Museum downsized its vehicle collection when it moved into the new building from Vimy House (an old bus warehouse) and they lent out a lot of vehicles to other museums (e.g. Lincoln and Welland Regimental Museum received about half a dozen I believe - including an ex-British Ferret Mark 2 recently). As there is no public list that I am aware of of CWM owned vehicles and their present location (an idea there for CWM's web site! ;-) this makes it a bit difficult for researchers as the vehicle they want to check on may no longer be in Ottawa or may be in storage. The reality is though that museums cannot accomodate all requests to see items behind the scenes. I have been fortunate that the CWM staff have granted me some behind the scenes access to parts of the collection (some parts are highly controlled for security reasons).

I shall dig out my images taken behind the scenes in the new building of the Panther, V1 piloted model, UC 2 Pr Equipped (one of several survivors in Canada - bit this one has a 2 Pr gun fitted now), late 1930s Canadian Chevrolet Prototype 15 Cwt truck (which I helped them acquire) etc.



COLIN STEVENS

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Colin Macgregor Stevens
The Canadian War Museum downsized its vehicle collection when it moved into the new building from Vimy House (an old bus warehouse)

Dana Nield has made an effort to record what was stored at Vimy House:
http://dana-nield.com/vimy/

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

That web site is several years out of date and the e-mail is now invalid. My message to him bounced back.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

I have posted my November 2006 photos of the CWM Panther and piloted V-1 on my web site at: Colin Stevens' web page with CWM Panther & Piloted V-1

[peter simundson]

The "War" actually had two turrets. One complete which they kept, which is in the vault, and one missing MG"s and parts, which they sent to Trenton.

The tank turret was not pristine and out of focus in the overall collection. It went to Swords and Plowshares.

Peter S

[Bob Cohoon]

Thanks for posting some early photos of our CWM Panther restoration.It`s scary what 30 or 40 years outside can do to an engine bay and interior,but at least the parts are mostly all there.A lot of vehicles are stripped clean inside before going on display, I guess some policy of some kind. For anyone interested, there are some photos of the very careful restoration going on with the Panther in the US ,I think Jacques Littlefield`s, at: www.toadmanstankpictures.com/axis.htm .Just look at the 4 section Panther A albums

There was talk years ago about a length of Panther track laying out in the training area of Petawawa. I can't imagine track getting there without the tank. Anyone have any info on this?

Perry

[Wayne McGee]

In 1972 in Petawawa there was a fairly well preserved Panther out in the impact area on the one of the field firing ranges.
About 800m from the firing point on the far left side, just outside the arc marker, which explains why it was'nt completely shot up. In an attempt to make it more attractive to gun controllers, yellow paint had been dumped on the turret and hull but in spite of this, when I saw it, it appeared quite intact, minus all of its hatches.

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi Wayne

In 2000, I think it was, there was a massive range clean up in the Petawawa Trg Area.

One of the items loaded onto the trucks and taken awat for scrap was, apparently, the roof for a Panther turret. Near Juliet (Hussar) Tower range, I think.

I got this info in 2001 from a Maj. in the RCD, who would know what he was talking about. He's a bit crazy for Panzers.

Maybe from the buried Farley Mowat Panzer collection that many are still looking for? A friend of mine went so far as to request an overflight from Aurora Maritime Patrol aircraft with it's Magnetic Anomoly Detector array. That request was denied.

He maintains he has the location down to a 6 km square but won't say where.

In 2004 I investigated, quite extensively, reports of a "Tiger" waaaaay out in a remote part of the Trg area but no luck.

regards
Darrell

[Bob Cohoon]

Yes,this seems to be where it is,as Petawa has armoured forces there and a range. I believe it is put aside,off the range, at the moment, and I really hope the powers that be will preserve it,as the Panther was one of the best tanks in WWII,an excellent design.I think we are very lucky to have two examples in the country.I think it is another Ausf. A type,as the one at the CWM.I would volunteer to help restore it,for sure.