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Did Canadian army in ETO use 4x2 CMPs?
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I rember we discussed this recently. I am sure David H., our resident Historian, can come up with good solid info on contracts etc. All I know is that the Canadian units which went over to France in 1940 were equipped with brand new Ford F15 4x2 (and remotely possibly Chevrolet???) trucks - see CMPs first used in action: June 1940, France. Groet, Hanno
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 28-09-14 at 10:54. Reason: fixed link |
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Here's an F15 4x2 in Antwerp. Although it was captured on film by a Canadian unit, it could of course also be a British truck. At least this could help to get the discussion on this subject going. . .
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Hillegom bevrijd CMP.jpg
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Thanks
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That's made my day! |
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Simple answers
This is in fact a very interesting and useful query. The answers are:
1. Ford F.15 and Chevrolet C.15 trucks were the first off the assembly lines at Southampton May 1940. 4x4 15-cwt versions followed some months later. 2. C.8 and presumably F.8 production commenced shortly after the 4x2 15-cwt trucks. 3. C.8 production at Oshawa, and I am guessing F.8 production at Windsor, terminated in 'Late 1941', in favour of 4x4 variants. 4. There is no evidence yet as to when 4x2 15-cwt production ended but I am sure that Dr Gregg suggested that they were 'obsolete' in Canadian service by 1944. I can find no record in my database of Canadian 4x2 trucks in 1943 Model Year. 5. The last known 4x2 truck that I know of was a C.15 assembled on November 16th 1943. That was to British order, S/M 6050 which was it seems the last GM order for 4x2 trucks. However, I am not sure whether the F.602S and F.602L 4x2 lorries were used by the Canadians....they were of course 4x2 CMPs! |
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Hanno, this business of studying old trucks has a different emotional impact when you put it that way. Which regiment(s)?
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Terry Warner - 74-????? M151A2 - 70-08876 M38A1 - 53-71233 M100CDN trailer Beware! The Green Disease walks among us! |
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did candian army use 4x2 CMPs
I have an original Department of National Defences instruction book. Fifth Edition , printed July 1941 by General Motors of Canada for the, 8CWT 4x2,15CWT4x2, 15CWT 4x4,30CWT4x4,3TON4x4 ,FA GUN Tractor 4x4.Would this mean they usde the 8CWT 4x2 CMPs inthe war ?
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George is hooked on OD 5 window DT969 8 ton Fruehauf trailer M2A1Halftrack ,CMP #11 F15A1 #13 F15A1 RAF Fordson Tractor, 42 WLC HD No.2MK11 CT267514 center CB24713 bottom hull25701 ,No.2 MK2 parts MK1 10128 ,(2) MK1 ,Parts Hull9305 .Hull 10407 Hull plate # 7250 all have walk plate on back steps 1917 Patent modle amphibious army tank |
#8
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C.8
Both C.8 and F.8 initially to my knowledge.
There is of course a photo of a F[?].15 in Dr Gregg's book when it mentions that they were obsolete. |
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Caption:
"D-DAY.nChevrolet CMP C60,CMP No.13-cabbed, 3-Ton Covered Fixedside-bodied 4x4 General Service Freight Lorry, at Pont L'Eveque, circa 10 miles from Deauville, D-Day plus 4:-" D-DAYChevroletCMPC60CMPNo13-cabbed3-TonCoveredFixedside-bodied4x4GeneralServiceFreightLorryatPon.jpg Source: http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/view...?f=35&t=114300
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Sorry richt truck on the picture is a C15a 4x4 15cwt version.....
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Indeed the caption "C60" is wrong, but it is a 4x2 C15....take a close look at the front axle:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Yes hanno jou are right. it's a 4x2 Model C15 15cwt like mine.
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F15 Anti-Tank Tractor
On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.
My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar). When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks. image.jpg
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Sorry Jakob, but it is a 4x2, look close at the front axle at the left front wheel, but I think it is British.
Hendrik
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Ford F15A Chevrolet C60S-brkd-5 (4) Carrier MK 1 Willys MB Austin K2 ATV Welbike MK I Volvo L475 |
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Another surviving F15, this one was sold last year at the Honychurch auction in the UK and now resides in the Netherlands, awaiting a lengthy rebuild:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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I was looking at the same footage yesterday. The white bar on top of the AoS indicates corps troops. "54" Transport company. Maybe British XXX Corps??? Alex F15 Antwerp.jpg XXX_Corps_(UK)_Logo.gif
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle Last edited by Alex van de Wetering; 23-10-18 at 13:14. |
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It may well be!
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Here's a 4x2 15-cwt CMP in action in the province of Drenthe, the Netherlands.
According to the caption these are vehicles of the Belgian 5th SAS Regiment. In that case, the picture must have been taken during Operation Larkswood (read more here: https://www.saak.nl/battlefield%20to...herst%20en.htm). The Belgian SAS were supporting 2nd Canadian Corps during that Operation. As far as I know the SAS did not have 15-cwt trucks, so possibly it belonged to a unit from 2nd Canadian Corps. AKL500715.jpg Caption: A motorized column of the Belgian SAS Para Regiment operating in the north of the Netherlands, equipped with Jeeps equipped with air target machine guns. Place: Oosterhesselen, Drenthe, the Netherlands Souce: https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/m...1-13966e870614
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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That would make an interesting ‘Then and Now” photo set, Hanno, if the location could be traced.
There are probably not many roads in that area with a rail line crossing it at such a sharp angle, followed almost immediately by a spur line that seems to head off parallel to the road. David |
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Canadian troops on the Market Square, Middelburg, The Netherlands, 1945. Note the Terrapins, DUKW and CMP 4x2 truck.
bd7c3be80fb39bd4ca01ded9157921c981b8894e7e922297a590e5372e97012e.jpg Source: https://digitaal.dezb.nl/foto/c59ea5...0-cb43733749f8
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Great photo Hanno.
I have never seen a photo of Terrapins in action and there are four in that picture ! Kevin Wheatcroft used to have one (no idea if he still has it) and that is the only one I have ever seen. David |
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Off-topic Terrapin
Hello David,
Reportedly Terrapins were used extensively during the Battle for the Scheldt. While M29C Weasels proved to be worthless, the bigger amphibians like LVT, DUKW and Terrapin proved to be decisive for the operations. Here's another picture taken in Middelburg during November 1944. You can find more here: https://digitaal.dezb.nl/beeldbank/s...field=terrapin Not sure Mr. Wheatcroft still has the Terrapin, I read he is currently having ten(!) Sherman tanks restored. Hopefully he will (also) spend his resources on a really rare vehicles like the Terrapin ;-) H. 849543af7f9795d7edbd811e3566d1b95453a69c04096b76be613767fccc4986.jpg Source: https://digitaal.dezb.nl/foto/0932ca...c-634b75bf90ec
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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F15 in British service
Look at the right, an F15 4x2 in British service in Normandy.
Caption: "British Sherman Firefly on a road in France 27th July 1944" 8357079759_408c345332_o_resized.jpg Source: https://flic.kr/p/dJudE4
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Chevrolet C15 4x2
Looks like a Chevrolet C15 4x2, but I cannot discern the type of Cab.
"Allied column, between Delft and the Hoornbrug bridge in Rijswijk. Date: 8 May 1945." HGA001860246.jpg Source: https://haagsgemeentearchief.nl/medi...d-cb3cf452b570 Next picture shows it crossing the Hoornbrug bridge at Rijswijk. After WW2 my mother's family lived in one of the houses behind the bridge on the left. HGA001860247.jpg Source: https://haagsgemeentearchief.nl/medi...d-a05304b9a164
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Here’s a photo of a pair of 4x2 CMPs in Bayeux (via Bruno Bamdé):
973264B4-D1DF-49A7-BFB5-D3917133AF22.jpeg
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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F15 4x2 in Haarlem may 1945. According to the description the truck is part of Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. The 1st Canadian Infantry division Formation can be seen on the nose.
F15 Cab13 Princess Patricia HAARLEM.JPG {C92F98E8-7177-4EE5-B182-D61F5CB73DF2}_0.jpg source:noord-hollandsarchief.nl https://hdl.handle.net/21.12102/C92F...82D61F5CB73DF2 The Census number "4982034" is described as "M/E" (middle east) in the Chilwell list. 4970101-4990100 M/E "Various types". The same photographer took two more pictures, one showing the jeep in front of...and the other also showing the jeep with the Ford in the Background. https://hdl.handle.net/21.12102/FDA9...AC13EFEEAD5A8F {D4203A45-A8C4-4D54-AA1E-74951EBEB73D}_0.jpg https://hdl.handle.net/21.12102/D420...1E74951EBEB73D The jeep has a formation sign with number "76"; 5th Canadian Field Ambulance??
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle |
#27
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Quote:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Most likely Hanno; 1st Can Inf Div after transfer from Italy. Possibly previously owned by another Allied force (?).....shame we can't see what style of body is fitted!
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle |
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C15 in Netherlands Army service in 1948. As we know the Netherlands Army took over much of the equipment of the Canadian army. Granted, it is indirect proof of Canadian Army use.
2001_N0000241-11.jpg Source: Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie (NIMH) image bank - https://beeldbank.nimh.nl/foto-s/det...0-021971e347ab
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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