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Cab 11 C15 and 2A1 body
I decided to start another thread dedicated to my C15. It's the early model with no vents. Something else that's different is the seats don't fold. I'm lucky to have another non-folding seat already.
We've decided on the other thread that it would have been manufactured in June 1940 based on the 40-1-713 census number.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 Last edited by cletrac (RIP); 06-05-07 at 04:34. |
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I assumed that a 2B1 body would be suitable until I checked out Military Vehicle Profiles. That's where this composite pic info came from. I can't imagine one of these wood bodies would have survived so I'm looking for info on same.
In the picture I included the 2H1 construction bit to get opinions as to whether the 2A1 would use similar techniques.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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This is a C15A with the 2A1 body. There's no tie brace between the fenders in front of the grille so I guess I'm not missing one on mine. There's also no tow rings.
In the previous post, what would the abbreviations on the models stand for?
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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Here's the only one I could find of the Chev 4x2 with the 2A1. The tarp is a bonus.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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This is a pretty detailed shot of the body on a Ford from Blueprint for Victory. It looks like they didn't carry a spare tire on these models but they'd have the run flat tires this early in the war.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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This is the only rear view I could find from Blueprint for Victory. It must be a Cab 12 with the roof hatch. Does anybody have any measurements for the body? Or does anybody have access to a body where they could get some detailed pix?
On closer inspection this looks like an all metal 2B1 body.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 Last edited by cletrac (RIP); 05-05-07 at 16:34. |
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This is the only CMP I've seen where the large hole at the end of the frame is hidden behind the spring hangers.
Somebody pointed out that the spring hangers have been moved back to increase the wheelbase. I looked and the driveshaft has been lengthened too. This explains why the big holes are behind the hangers. This means the overloads weren't original.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 Last edited by cletrac (RIP); 06-05-07 at 04:41. |
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Quote:
As the 2A1 body is very similar to the contemporary British design, I'd use Mike Kelly's 15-cwt GS body drawings as a starting point for basic dimensions and details: http://www.geocities.com/vk3cz/GSBody.html Good luck, looks like an exciting project! Hanno
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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I'm not sure where I got this one. On the other pix the side panels are made from two wide boards and on this one they're made from several narrow boards.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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Hi dave
great to see your pictures of the c15, 11 cab. we have this one on the yard waiting for some attention... it could eb a long wait, the job list seems to grow and the time with spanner in hand gets shorter every year! Maybe that having kids for you! the better of these trucks is an SM2002 vehicle that I've known for some 25 years, I originally tracked it down for a school friend and at that time it had a n original steel body on it, it later passed through many hands and bits went missing along the way! Later we came across the rusty c15, very rusty but absolutley complete, clearing away the undergrowth the original wooden body sides and tailgate appeared... So we have all the meatl work and patterns for most of the other bits... I keep meaning to have a go at it, but am having a look at a 10cwt trailer first. Any idea what timber was originally usedfor these vehicle bodies? Oh one truck has an original tow bar too.. kind regards nick tow bar and spring c15 rusty... |
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Nick, thanks for the pix. I see both trucks have the vents and tie bar between the fenders. Do the seats fold?
In the excerpt I posted from Gregg's book it states that the longitudinal sills and the cross sills were hardwood and the rest was softwood. Being Canadian production the hardwood would be oak and the softwood would be fir. Pine would be too soft a wood for this purpose. Were the sides on your body made from two wide boards or four narrow boards? If you can find the time could you take some measurements for me? It would be greatly appreciated.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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as found in 1980
originally found in blackpool uk as a tow truck
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hi dave
I still have the panels originally fitted to the truck, a previous owner attempted the restoration using cab panels from a c8, none of it actually fits!!!
kind regards nick |
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Quote:
i noticed some major differences between your 11 and my 12...pic attached. what's with the helper springs?? i don't recall ever seeing them on the smaller trucks? cheers!! mike |
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Have only glanced through this thread but would the British type be suitable, the reason I ask is that I had been trying to hunt down the original manufacturers of the British wooden rear and found out that one company was based down the road from my place of work. I followed the story of the company and found out as with most companies it had been bought and sold at various times until finally bought and split up, the company which did this has its HQ in London and I was tempted in contacting them to see if any original plans still existed? I might just try and get my self to finally follow it through.
Just remembered the original Firm who made the bodies - Duple, located in a place called 'The Hyde' off Edgware road NW (London) Last edited by Colin R; 05-05-07 at 21:05. |
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F15 non vented 11
This particular truck has been discussed before on this forum, the owners used to be from the Bristol area in 2001/2 but haven't seen it around since then. I believe the rear body is original to the truck
Pete |
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S/M 2002
That's serial number 18421000169, delivered under Demand S/M 2002. Here's an official shot that I have of another.
The truck with the boys is Michel Casaubon's early C15...I have monochrome and colour shots if it tha he e mailed me. Quote:
Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 05-05-07 at 23:08. |
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And another!
I think I have the original of this photo.
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And another
Sorry it is cropped!
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Nick, I read somewhere that the inner wheelwells on the 15 cwts had to be different because the 4x2s would turn sharper so need more clearance. I don't know if the 8 cwts were this way too. Most of the cab panels should be the same.
On another thread I posted a pic of the floor panels in my C8 with a different treadplate pattern on the passenger side panel. Well, the C15 has exactly the same mix of panels. Check yours and see if they're like that too. C8 data plate Colin, checking them out sounds like a good idea. I have the floor panels off of three Cab 11 Chevs and they're all the same. The panel under the seats and the drivers side panel are dot and dash treadplate and the passengers side plate is all dashes.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 Last edited by cletrac (RIP); 07-05-07 at 03:13. |
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Hi DAVE
I've not really manage to work out quite whats amiss witht he truck here.. a previous owner rebuilt the cab (or most of it) with the cab from a C8.. most of it looks ok, but the wings have been lengthened and the archbars have also been modified (extended) with bits of angle iron to reach the step brackets. Looking at the front of the truck the pannels again don't seem right the radiator appature isn't square but tapers as thought he C8 arch bars are in some way different... having said that its all fixed properly at the front end.... any way the secong truck should give us a set of arch bars that are of the correct dimensions. kind regards nick arch bar extension |
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c8 cab floor panels
Dave
yes the cab floor panels are different, must have been like that from new, this particular truck has never been taken apart kind regards nick |
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Arch bar
I apologise if this is of no use, as I am no expert as you know. I remembered some information from the DND papers relating to the early 1940 # 11 Cabs:
Quote:
Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 06-05-07 at 23:42. |
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David Hayward, you figured that census # 40-1-713 would have been produced in June. Gregg states that 15000 CMPs were manufactured by Ford and Chev in 1940. That's 9 months production so there were 1666 per month. Even if the first months were at half that rate, wouldn't that make 40-1-713 an April truck or am I missing something?
What were the demand #s of the first few months production and how many were ordered or do you have that info? Thanks for all the input.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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Production
I have written about production commencement and that achieved before, based on D.N.D. papers, plus those of the Southern Railway company in respect of the C.M.D. in Southampton. However I don't have Hanno's research skills so have had to look up my papers again.
Quote:
My vague suggestion was based on trying to assess Chevrolet CMP (or DND-pattern as it was then called) trucks per day then adding in the demand for export to Southampton & Dagenham, and when Chevrolet production actually started, which was later than Ford's start-up. Then of course we have to consider when the domestic Census Number was actually applied to the trucks. My understanding, and this is under correction, that maximum assembly at Oshawa and Windsor was until ramping-up in September say 100 units per day to include M.C.P. I should also add that I have the Walkerville Plant Chevrolet engine production figures by month for the period, which show that between 5000 and 6000 or so units were produced each month. That includes of course domestic and export civilian car & truck production. GM of Canada show a total of 26,270 Chevrolets produced in 1940. I also have the C.K.D. production by Oshawa each month, showing 324 units in April, which makes sense, and then 1308 in May. 15,665 C.K.D. vehicles were built in 1940 in total, but nearly 3,000 of those could not be military vehicles. Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 07-05-07 at 12:03. |
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GM of Canada military production figures
GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA PRODUCTION FIGURES APRIL 1 1940 TO MARCH 31 1944
YEAR CHEV & G.M.C. M.T. /ARMY DESIGN TRUCKS/ WORKSHOPS /STORES/ LORRIES /WRECKERS/ SHOPS/ 6 X 6 [C.60X]/ TOTAL BY YEARS 1940 7,368 10,291 NIL NIL NIL NIL 17,659 1941 20,471 30,913 259 273 268 NIL 52,184 1942 16,370 59,885 187 197 183 418 77,240 1943 11,976 47,953 181 70 159 809 61,148 1944 3,795 9,977 NIL NIL 90 386 14,248 TOTAL 59,980 159,019 627 540 700 1,613 222,479 INCLUDED IN THIS TOTAL WERE THE FOLLOWING SHIPMENTS AUSTRALIA 25,352 NEW ZEALAND 1,457 INDIA 69,279 SOUTH AFRICA 2,497 MALAYA 72 TOTAL 98,657 So 10,291 Chevrolet CMPs were in theory built in 1940 with 26,270 Chevrolets built in total, which must include the Chevrolet M.C.P. trucks in the left column (mixed with GMC). |
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CMP Bodies
Learning from this the thread, But would like to know the difference between a 2K1 body and a Wire=5 body??
What is the meaning Cab 11,12,13,14, 15 etc is this referring to the roof hatch? My f15a gs, F15a WT,C15a gs all have the same square hatch. Lots to learn, new on forum, better than a dictionary. Would like to buy a Glossary of all the terms if there is one. dennis gelean dgelean@xplornet.com 2can on ebay |
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The CMPs with the windshields leaning back are Cab 11 or Cab 12. The Cab 11s were made in 1940 and had no roof hatch and a very small opening engine hood. The Cab 12s were made in 1941 and had a square roof hatch and a larger engine hood. The Cab 13s had the windshield sloping forward and the 1942 to 1944 models had square roof hatches while the late 1944 and 1945 models had the round roof hatch.
2K1 is the model name for the house type wireless body and 15441-M-Wire-5 is the model name for the truck with the 2K1 body on it.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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POW can holder
I've been asked for measurements for a POW can holder so will post the pix here. This is an excellent holder off a Cab 11 with 2A1 box. The 2B1 I have uses exactly the same box and it looks like all the 15 cwts use the same thing.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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I scanned the lid so if you print the pic full size it has to be right.
The body of the holder is made of 1/16" material and the rest is all 1/8" thick.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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