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Aussie Sentinel tanks
Hi all,
As a follow on to Phoenix's thread on Aussie Vickers tanks http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11489 which has been great I'd like to start one on Australia's Sentinel tanks produced in 1942-3. Much is already written on the development and production of them but what do we know of their survival post war. How many and where do they still exist? Go into as much detail as you please. The more the merrier. I'll start off by what I (think I) know off the top of my head. Bovington has an AC1 AWM has/had an AC3 (?) Pucka tank museum has an AC1 John Belfield had an AC1, a hybrid (?) AC3 and an AC1 hull. These of course were sold in 2006. The buyers and where-abouts since I do not know of. I would really like to know more. Much more. |
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Sentinel
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Film maker 42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains 42 FGT No9 (Aust) 42 F15 Keith Webb Macleod, Victoria Australia Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern |
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Good luck with your quest, Ryan. I have a bit of 2nd hand info for you.
I was up at Walhalla Vic. on the weekend of 28th and 29th June 2008, was talking to the owner of a veteran car who recounted this story. His father, in 1946/47 (?) went to Bandiana for an auction. He placed a sealed bid for Ninety pounds for 1 Sentinel tank. His bid was rejected, but he was advised that if he increased his bid to 100 pounds, then he would be successful. This he did and he chose his tank. From Melbourne they took a Diamond T tray truck loaded with fuel to Bandiana and then drove the tank back to Melbourne. There were many problems both before starting home and along the way. One of the 3 Cadillac engines was US but they fitted another. The turrent was removed at the family farm at ?? Upper Beaconsfield?? and the tank used around the property. Eventually the tank was donated to the Pucka Armoured Museum. Not long after picking up this tank, the chap was contacted by Army Disposals who wanted to know when he was picking up the other tanks that he had purchased. Seems his 100pounds was for the line of tanks. 3 or 4 Sentinels. He went into panic and off loaded them to someone else as he only wanted one. I will look up the name of the chap I was talking to, it is out at our new house and you can contact him for the full story. This is just a precis of his story. regards Rick
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1916 Albion A10 1942 White Scoutcar 1940 Chev Staff Car 1940 F30S Cab11 1940 Chev WA LRDG "Te Hai" 1941 F60L Cab12 1943 Ford Lynx 1942 Bren Gun Carrier VR no.2250 Humber FV1601A Saracen Mk1(?) 25pdr. 1940 Weir No.266 25pdr. Australian Short No.185 (?) KVE Member. |
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Ryan, have sent you a PM with all the contact details. Rick
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1916 Albion A10 1942 White Scoutcar 1940 Chev Staff Car 1940 F30S Cab11 1940 Chev WA LRDG "Te Hai" 1941 F60L Cab12 1943 Ford Lynx 1942 Bren Gun Carrier VR no.2250 Humber FV1601A Saracen Mk1(?) 25pdr. 1940 Weir No.266 25pdr. Australian Short No.185 (?) KVE Member. |
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Story
What a great story, Rick
Sort of thing I'd love to record!
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Film maker 42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains 42 FGT No9 (Aust) 42 F15 Keith Webb Macleod, Victoria Australia Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern |
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PM on the way to you too. Rick
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1916 Albion A10 1942 White Scoutcar 1940 Chev Staff Car 1940 F30S Cab11 1940 Chev WA LRDG "Te Hai" 1941 F60L Cab12 1943 Ford Lynx 1942 Bren Gun Carrier VR no.2250 Humber FV1601A Saracen Mk1(?) 25pdr. 1940 Weir No.266 25pdr. Australian Short No.185 (?) KVE Member. |
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Post war stories
Thank you Rick,
I'll be following that lead. All I can say is wow, 3-4 Sentinels for 100 pounds. There has to be Sentinels or their remains out there still to see the light. Of 66 made we only know of 6 remaining? Surely not. AC Sentinels are pretty under-rated I believe. Thanks too Keith, Your work previously has been great. |
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Hi Ryan,
I dont see him very often, but when ever i see him next time, i`ll see what i can find out if he'll agree to it! Cheers, Ian.
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Ian Fawbert 1942 Script Willys MB, sn:131175 1942 Script Ford GPW, sn:11730 1944 Ford GPW 1943 #3 GMH jeep trailer 1945 #4 GMH, RAAF jeep Trailer SOLD: Ford F15A. Aust. #? Office Body. www.vintageengines.net |
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movie
Bit of useless trivia . Years ago, I was looking at a wartime era movie , made here in Aust. It was depicting a desert battle, maybe Tobruk or something. Anyway, the tanks in some scenes were the Sentinals .. no doubt in my mind . I think Chips Rafferty was in the film .
Mike
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1940 cab 11 C8 1940 Morris-Commercial PU 1941 Morris-Commercial CS8 1940 Chev. 15cwt GS Van ( Aust.) 1942-45 Jeep salad |
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Serial numbers?
Where do I look for the serial numbers guys.
Ron
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Ron Winfer |
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Quote:
It's a long time since I saw that movie, sure they weren't just Grants?
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Col Wish List : LP2, Matilda, Valentine Hull in any condition... |
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Quote:
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Col Wish List : LP2, Matilda, Valentine Hull in any condition... |
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Photo on ebay
Interesting picture showing a partially completed Sentinel with a large group of LP2A carriers. You'll have to scroll down a bit through a bunch of oversized text to get to it.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NSW-RAILWAYS-...3286.m20.l1116 Regards.
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Blitz books. |
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Australian AC IV?
Question for our Aussie compatriots: While perusing pictures for sale on ebay I came across a picture of what appears to be an Australian Sentinel tank mounting the 17pdr. A quick trip to Wikipedia tells me that only a few had that gun mounted, so this might be a rare picture of the tank. Derek.
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
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That's a pretty common pic found across many websites.
It may be originally a AWM photo so I don't know how authentic the ad may be. A copy perhaps.
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Blitz books. |
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Quote:
Here are some recent photos of the AC1 at Puckapunyal. Regards Easo
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You can tell a lot about a woman from her hands, for example, if there around your neck then she might be a little mad with you! |
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Sentinel
Thanks for the pics Easo.
It's a shame the project was abandoned in 1943 when it was just really gearing up for AC3 and AC4 production. Even new tank shops were being readied at Ford Geelong. The 80+ AC3 hulls that had been cast I guess were then just scrapped. In a different world Australia may have soldiered on into the 1950s with AC4's with 17pdrs instead of M3 Grants with 75mms. |
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It is certainly a shame as it would have been a awsome tank in combat with the 17pdr.
This is the only shot I have of the Bovington tank I took a heap on my visit in 2008. But this is all I can find, This week I'll get more detailed images. Easo
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You can tell a lot about a woman from her hands, for example, if there around your neck then she might be a little mad with you! |
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Cast Armour tanks
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Did the later Sentinels (AC3 and AC4) with the 25 pounder and 17-pounder guns use the same 54-inch turret ring as the AC1. A 60-inch ring was considered necessary for the Ram's 6-pounder and a three-man crew (although 40 were up-gunned to 75mm). Roger |
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I think what Easo meant to say was that the Sentinel was the first tank to utilise a single casting for the entire hull.
The 'AC4' was, of course, a 'drawing board' tank: it was not actually built. The images that purport to show the AC4 are actually an E series (I think E-3?) test bed hull with a turret casting mounting a 17pdr: it was a concept mock-up only. Note, in the image, the 'stub' of the hull MG mount in the centre front of the hull: a feature of the AC1 deleted in the AC3, and would have been deleted in the AC4 as well, if it had reached prototype stage. Not sure what the projected turret ring diameter was: will have to check. Mike C |
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Did James Swan have a sentinal
G'day all
I was speaking to a young local bloke at the James swan clearing sale and he told me about the time he and james removed the turret off a sherman tank. At the time I just thought he ment Lee/Grant or Stuart until he started to talk to me about the 3 v8 engines in it. I didnt get the young blokes name and had to get back to the auction. Does anyone else know anything about it or was he feeding me bulls*@t Luke |
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Many years ago James did have 1 or 2 Sentinals, they may have been bought from the Melb Tank Museum when John had his sale.
Where they went I am unsure. |
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sentinels
The 3 Sentinels at the 2006 auction as far as I have been able to find went as follows:
E1 hull stayed with John AC1 went to the United States AC3 went (?) to collector in QLD. |
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Quote:
I think AC1 went to the Jacques Littlefield collection in California.
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Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
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ac1
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Luke, you and me will just have to uncover some more with some thorough digging. |
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Quote from Mike Cecil
Quote:
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Swiss Chris aka Christoph Zimmerli - Driving Switzerland's only Aussie F15 www.wheelsandtracks.com >> Condor A580 M+85691 (1952), Swiss Army Motorbike (unrestored) >> F15 1942 Aust (Cab 13) ::: restored by Keefy |
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Australian Cruiser.1.
A very interesting account about the invention and development of the Sentinel AC 1 tank. It took only 22 months from planning to driving.
Enjoy. Rick. http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/rec...-vol5-ch14.pdf
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1916 Albion A10 1942 White Scoutcar 1940 Chev Staff Car 1940 F30S Cab11 1940 Chev WA LRDG "Te Hai" 1941 F60L Cab12 1943 Ford Lynx 1942 Bren Gun Carrier VR no.2250 Humber FV1601A Saracen Mk1(?) 25pdr. 1940 Weir No.266 25pdr. Australian Short No.185 (?) KVE Member. |
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Yes, Rick, the Official History account is interesting, but does not provide a complete picture by any means.
For example, the statement that the Cadillac was the 'only engine available with enough Horsepower' does not take into account the preference by Watson for the Guiberson Radial diesel engine above all others. Unfortunately, the high fees and royalties required by Guiberson were unacceptable to the Australian government, so the engine was dropped from contention. The Caddie engine in triplicate, running through a common crank-case, was the next-best available alternative. DP Mellor's history of the AC tanks is a great starting point and a 'good read'. It's a pity that the unpublished manuscript I referred to remains just that: unpublished, as it provides a far more in-depth analysis of the whole saga. Mike C |
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new find
I was recently at a farm and saw an AC hull cut off above the tracks. Hull no. BK23.
Sorry, BK AH23
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Blitz books. Last edited by Ryan; 26-03-13 at 11:46. Reason: serial |
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tobruk movie
Seems the 1944 movie 'The rats of tobruk' which features Sentinels in action mocked up as Panzers has been remastered and released on DVD.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/191124492...49#ht_7wt_1137 hmm
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Blitz books. |
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