Lapel badge: recognize it?

Glen · #1 17-02-08, 16:16

This was on the lapel of my grandfather's military photo taken in Aldershot. His cap badge is of the Ontario Tank Regiment, but I just realized his shoulder lapel badges are different. Take a look at the picture: any idea what it is?

PPS · #2 17-02-08, 16:43

Could it possibly be a Tank Corp related badge and a "hossifer's" one at that?

Is that a King's Crown I see?

See http://www.royaltankregiment.com/RTR.htm

Look in the "History" page - the badge looks similar to the one used between 1923 and 1952

Paul.

sapper740 · #3 17-02-08, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

This was on the lapel of my grandfather's military photo taken in Aldershot. His cap badge is of the Ontario Tank Regiment, but I just realized his shoulder lapel badges are different. Take a look at the picture: any idea what it is?

Hmmm, bit of a poser. You didn't upload a pic of his cap badge, which should be of a Cat arching it's back within a circle of maple leaves, yes? Quite often, collar dogs represent the Arm of Service, not the actual regiment the wearer belongs to, but the RCAC badge is of a mailed fist within 4 semi-circular arrows pointing up. The only Canadian armoured regiment that I know of having a Mk IV tank in it's cap badge, and hence possibly as a collar dog was the Essex Regiment (Tank) raised at Windsor, Ontario Dec. 15, 1936 which became the Windsor Regiment (22nd Reconnaissance Regiment) Apr. 4, 1949. I'm no expert but this info might give you some leads to track down. Derek.

PPS · #4 17-02-08, 19:23

On the RCAC Association website there are a couple of illustrations of badges, although whether they were cap badges or not I cannot answer.

Two of them show a badge similar to the British one, but the British motto "Fear Naught" is replaced by "Canada". The two badges in question are for the School and CAC. See http://www.rcaca.org/En/indexLM.asp?ID=1 for the details of the badge.

On the Essx Regiment website there is an old photograph, a few seem to be wearing "Collar Dogs", but of those I can see none look like the photo Glen has posted.

Paul.

I have just found this site, and it shows what I believe to be the same "Collar Dog", it is a Canadian Armoured Corps Officer's CD.

http://news.webshots.com/album/549607611RvilBx

Paul

Glen · #5 17-02-08, 21:58

Hi again, I think we're getting closer here, but here's some more info to put the lapel badge in context.

My grandfather was trained at Camp Borden, then went to the Officer's Training Camp in Brockville. The pictures I'm going to upload now are all from when he was still in Canada, so I'm thinking the picture of him in Aldershot with the Ontario Regiment capbadge (with arched cat etc..) together with the mysterious lapel badge was such that maybe he hadn't yet received the lapel badges for the Ontario regiment?

In any case, the first picture is of three officers, my grandfather's on the right. Maybe the armbadges they have in these pictures are a clue...they all have the same tank logo. I know the guy in the middle and my grandfather both trained at OTC brockville, so maybe the armbadge is from there?

Also, the guy in the middle looks like he as already been assigned to a specific regiment, given his capbadge ( is that the sherbrooke fusiliers or the halifax rifles or something?)

Anyway, I've posted a closeup of the tank armbadge, as well as a closeup of my grandfather's cap badge while still in canada which looks similar to the lapel badge I'm trying to pinpoint.

I looked on the websites you all suggested. I'm thinking it's not the Royal Tank Regiment, since the guy on the left in the 3-officer photo seems to be sporting the same lapel badge that I'm trying to pinpoint, as well as cap badge, and the picture was taken in Canada.

I went to the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps website and the badges there look maybe to be what I'm looking for.
I'm thinking maybe the one that says "school" is the one I'm looking for, since the mystery lapel badge surface in the original picture I uploaded seems smooth, not covered in rivets like the other one, and it makes sense that they would wear a badge that was for a school if they were, in fact, being schooled at OTC Brockville.

But, the badge ("School CAC ")on the RCAC site...
http://www.rcaca.org/En/indexLM.asp?ID=1
...also seems like it could be the one I"m looking for because of the placement of the gun on the side of the tank and how it's big and squarish, and there's a big blurry square on the original photo I provided in this thread.

What do you think? Am I whistlin' Dixie here?
Cheers,
Glen.

sapper740 · #6 18-02-08, 02:22

is the "Tank Arm" badge, meaning, quite simply, that they are tankers. It's not that they are members of the Royal Tank Regiment or the Royal Tank Corps, but simply "tankers". It's an "Arm of Service" badge that was only worn on their Service Dress uniforms, not their battle dress. What I'm seeing is three young Officer-cadets or newly commissioned officers (I don't remember if they had their rank showing) at the Armour school. They wear their home unit's cap badges on their berets, the school's collar dogs, as they are temporarily posted there, and of course, since they are tankers, they have the "Tank Arm" badges on their right arms only. I'm sure any zipperhead will confirm this. Darryl Zinck hasn't posted here for a while, I'm sure he knows. Derek.

P.S. The fuzzy cap badge of the middle officer has the general shape of the Elgin Regiment

Darrell Zinck · #7 19-02-08, 02:37

Hi All

Darrell hasn't posted in a while because, more often than not, he can't get in!!!

Glen

Yes, your GF is wearing the cap and collar badges of the Canadian Armoured Corps (CAC). Issued in 1940 though never "officially" authorized as such. Thet were all siver in colour. You may now know we didn't gain the "Royal" prefix until after the war in Europe ended and didn't adopt the mailed fist badge for Corps Troops until July 1949. PPS is pretty spot on. Student and Staff (all ranks) of the Canadian Armoured Fighting Vehicle School (CAFVS) wore it as well as those going over seas as re-inforcements. Not uncommon at all for those who hadn't been Regimented yet. If he was an Ontario Regiment (Ont R) Officer, those badges would have came later.

No Ont R badges seen in that pic of the three. The centre chap's is a puzzzle as it's very hard to see but possibly Halifax Rifles (HR) Officers capbadge based on the shape and pointy bits locations. No other WW2 Armoured Regiment's capbadges match what I can see. Of the 32 units that served in the Corps during WW2 the HR looks closest to what that chap in the centre is wearing. I looked carefully at my collection of those unit's capbadges (missing just 3 but it's still a work in progress) and will say likely HR.

As for the sleeve patch, that was first used in 1938 to identify the Staff at the CAFVS and later Students of the various Canadian Armoured Corps Schools.

The name changes our Corps and it's schools went through can get a bit confusing at times!! Depend when that pic was taken, I guess. Any idea what month and year? What was your GF's name and do you know his ser #? PM/email it if you like. I may be able dig up a bit more unless you already have his file. Is he deceased? WW2 files aren't too too hard to get if you're family.

Hope that helps you.

regards
Darrell