Sand channel, PSP, Marsden matting

[sapper740]

Here's a timely new thread what with the buzz Mike and Graeme created over the "Looking for Marsden Matting" thread. I have a picture that could qualify for the "Under new Management" thread also. It's a picture of a captured Marmon-Harrington armoured car in Africa with some Marsden Matting mounted on the side.

[cletrac (RIP)]

;These are mostly New Zealand pix.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Some more.

[Mike Timoshyk]

Great shots Dave,

I particularly like the one where they are actually using it.....the matting of course...

cheers

Mike in Windsor

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's some more pix I dug up. The PSP was also known as sand channels. They also used canvas sand mats and rolls of sticks as you can see in some of these pix.

[cletrac (RIP)]

And some more. The captured F8 has quite a bit of sand matting over the bumper.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Jeff Gordon

You would have to be good to identify its make and model.
I am guessing an F60L.
Cheers
Jeff
Is this a sh*t load of PSP matting or what!

Hi Jeff

You must have been digging back through old MLU threads, when I saw the picture I thought that looks familiar, pulled out the book the picture came from and it is the picture I posted or have you found a copy of the books as well. It comes out of a US Army Corps of Engineering History and shows various Canadian/Austrailian vehicles, some equipment being used by US troops in reverse Leand Lease. Thanks for reminding me of that book though as now I have a better scanner I'll have to go through and scan more of the pictures in the book and post them. The books are interesting as they large format set of eight volumes covering Corps of Engineers in support of Allied forces in South West Pacific. You history buffs might want to keep an eye out for the set or even individual volumes.

[sapper740]

I finally found time to make the trip to Calumet, OK to pick up some PSP. Fortunately Capt. (ret'd) Dennis Boots (waving hello in the picture) of the Viet Nam Veterans Association Chapter 920, Denton, TX had to make a run to Oklahoma City to pick up some insulated cab covers for the unit's M35A2's so I tagged along and avoided a large gas bill. (By the way, anyone experiencing a breakdown during the Trans Continental convoy next month will get to know Dennis very well as he has taken on the responsibility of maintenance officer for the trip and will be driving his M151 as tail-end Charly with the maintenance trailer.) Calumet Industries has 80 acres of military surplus with items ranging from trucks, trailers, drop tanks, PSP, storage containers, truck parts, web gear etc. etc. As for PAP, they only had one length left as it is more popular than the PSP and it wasn't for sale.

CHIMO! Derek.

[Little Jo]

Hi All

I have been having a debate with some mates for a while now as too whether any WW2 LRDG Jeeps carried "Marsden Matting" on their vehicles. We are all sure we have seen photos of the matting cut down and attached to the side of the LRDG Jeep.

I have spent hours on looking at LRDG sites checking equipment and photos of LRDG vehicles and only found Marsden Matting attached to the side of their trucks, but I could not find any LRDG Jeeps with cut down matting carried on their Jeep. We are sure we have seen photos somewhere but we cannot remember where. I am sure that matting would have been of benefit for any vehicle working in desert country.

Can any MLU member out there assist in solving our debate or if they have seen Marsden Matting carried on any WW2 Western Desert Jeeps.

Cheers

Tony

[Lang]

Tony,

That is not Marsden Matting in your photo but looks like a type of sand mat that I have seen photos of (will look) on various British vehicles.

Click on this to see Marsden Matting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Matting


Lang

[Lang]

Here is a photo of an Australian Chev with those sand mats.

[lynx42]

Tony,

The channel on the side of the Bedford MW you show is known as "Sand Channel". It was invented by the LRDG founder, Brigadier Ralph Bagnold way back in the 1920's to assist his exploration of the African Deserts. It is completely different to Marston Matting. It cannot be joined together and has formed sides for stiffness. This was carries by mose vehicles in the North African Campaign. Even my 1940 Chev Staff car carried some on the roof. There were/are still marks from the roofrack and dents above the rear window where they were thrown up to the roof rack.

You will see plenty of photos of vehicles with the Sand Channel being carried.

Regards Rick.

[Lang]

Some good LRDG photos of mats here.

http://lrdg.hegewisch.net/Chevy_wb.html

Lang

[lynx42]

Lang, I've seen that photo before. It is amazing that you posted it whilst I was writing my post.

Is there anyone with the technology to read the ARN painted on the bonnet on the ground?

I can only make out the "AIF ####.
Rick.

[Lang]

Here is a great photo of the British mats. You can also see the roll-out type mat on the front guard. These were canvas with wood stays, easy to handle but I believe easily broken.

As a sideline - I found photos of current SAS in Iraq and Afghanistan and they do use marsden matting BUT it is the alloy type. Same as WW2 pattern but about 2/3 the weight

[Little Jo]

Hi Guys

Last night I stirred up the old the old grey matter and finally remembered where I had seen the photo of a section of Marsden Matting on an LRDG Jeep as part of their kit. It was not a LRDG photo, but in a movie called "Play Dirty". starring Michael Caine as a stiff upper lip British Army Captain sent on an LRDG mission behind German lines.

I thought it a good movie showing lots of LRDG trucks and Jeeps scenes. That now clears up where I had seen the Marsden Matting on a Jeep, So I am wrong to assume that officially it was part of the LRDG Jeep Kit. I think "Lang" put it correctly when he said one could be accused of "Gilding the Lily" when setting up their own restoration kit.

Cheers

Tony

[David DeWeese]

Hi,
I lost interest in that movie when I saw the Dodge M-37's they had rigged up to look like Mercedes military trucks. I guess they had to use something....
Being in this hobby has ruined many a war movie for me, if you know what I mean....
David

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Hi,
I lost interest in that movie when I saw the Dodge M-37's they had rigged up to look like Mercedes military trucks. I guess they had to use something....
Being in this hobby has ruined many a war movie for me, if you know what I mean....
David

David

I know exactly what you mean. I too since becoming involved with WW2 Jeep restorations am constantly driving the family nuts when I point out wrong era vehicles used in movies. I did not look to close at the mock up mercedes.

Cheers

Tony

[warren brown]

Hi Little Jo - having a jeep in SAS config, I've spent a lot of time studying the same question. There are photos of good SAS/LRDG 'restorations' - with the sand channels fitted squarely across the two spare wheels on the back - screwed on with big sort of wing-nuts. I don't know whether this is ridgey-didge (the channels fitted there that is), but it looks neat.

[jack neville]

Originally Posted by Little Jo

Hi All

I have been having a debate with some mates for a while now as too whether any WW2 LRDG Jeeps carried "Marsden Matting" on their vehicles. We are all sure we have seen photos of the matting cut down and attached to the side of the LRDG Jeep.

I have spent hours on looking at LRDG sites checking equipment and photos of LRDG vehicles and only found Marsden Matting attached to the side of their trucks, but I could not find any LRDG Jeeps with cut down matting carried on their Jeep. We are sure we have seen photos somewhere but we cannot remember where. I am sure that matting would have been of benefit for any vehicle working in desert country.

Can any MLU member out there assist in solving our debate or if they have seen Marsden Matting carried on any WW2 Western Desert Jeeps.

Cheers

Tony

Although Marsden Matting or PSP was developed by the USA just before the war, the Commonwealth forces were running around North Africa long before the Americans became involved. I am thinking that is why you only see the British sand planks on vehicles. The Americans had not supplied any PSP at that stage. Re-enactors and Hollywood throw a few curve balls into the historical equation, probably because they can't get the British planking. Or the lazy restorers find the PSP easier to obtain. And don't do their research.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by jack neville

... Or the lazy restorers find the PSP easier to obtain. And don't do their research.

Or maybe they take advantage of the fact that it their truck to do with as they see fit?

[Little Jo]

Hi Guys

The half size Marsden Matting sheets attached to Tony's Dodge look good to me and it appears that a lot of work has gone into the fitting of the matting to the vehicle. As Mr R H Clarke has said, in the end it is Tony's vehicle and I don't think it detracts from the overall vehicle. I note Tony also has a flashing light on the roof, a safety item for slow moving vehicles. I use a flashing light on the rear of my Jeep when travelling on freeways and country roads as a safety aid which works for me.

Cheers

Tony

[Mike Cecil]

..... and here's me thinking you were hanging it from the sides as a stand-off protection against RPGs (so common along the roads of Tasmania...)


Nice neat job of mounting, by the way.

Mike C