Types of vehicles used in a Reconnaisance Regiment

[randall klein]

Hope someone can shed some light on the following question:

Within a typical Squadron in a Recce Regiment, what vehicles were used and how many were allocated to each Squadron.

Many thanks,

Randall Klein

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by randall klein

Hope someone can shed some light on the following question:

Within a typical Squadron in a Recce Regiment, what vehicles were used and how many were allocated to each Squadron.

Hi Randall;

A couple of questions for you:

- what period are you looking at?
- who's army (Canadian, British, ...) are you looking at?
- do you want the information for a 'Reconnaissance Regiment' or for an 'Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment' or both?

Cheers

[randall klein]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

Hi Randall;

A couple of questions for you:

- what period are you looking at?
- who's army (Canadian, British, ...) are you looking at?
- do you want the information for a 'Reconnaissance Regiment' or for an 'Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment' or both?

Cheers

Mark, thanks for the quick reply.
I am after both Canadian Reconnaissance Regiment and Canadian Armoured Recce Regiment from '43-45 or thereabouts.
An Aussie friend's dad served with a British Recce Regiment. We are sort of comparing notes on formations and equipment used during WW2.
My Dad served with the 17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars (7th Recce Regiment, 3rd Div, Royal Canadian Army ) during WW2 and landed in Normandy Dday+5.
Thanks for your help

Randy

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by randall klein

Mark, thanks for the quick reply.
I am after both Canadian Reconnaissance Regiment and Canadian Armoured Recce Regiment from '43-45 or thereabouts.
An Aussie friend's dad served with a British Recce Regiment. We are sort of comparing notes on formations and equipment used during WW2.
My Dad served with the 17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars (7th Recce Regiment, 3rd Div, Royal Canadian Army ) during WW2 and landed in Normandy Dday+5.
Thanks for your help

Randy

I'll see what I can dig up out of my cave ... I mean files

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by randall klein

Within a typical Squadron in a Recce Regiment, what vehicles were used and how many were allocated to each Squadron.

Hi Randy;

This is a start - based on the vehicle portion of the War Establishment for ‘An Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment, C.A.C. (Type B)’ (Cdn. II/156/1 - effective 12 January 1944):

Squadron Headquarters:

2x Truck, Heavy Utility, Personnel, 4x4
1x Truck, 15-cwt, Battery Charging, 4x4
2x Truck, 15-cwt, Armoured, 4x4
11x Lorry, 3-Ton, GS, 4x4
1x Lorry, 3-Ton, 6-WH, Stores, 6x6
1x Scout Car, 4x4
4x Tank, Cruiser
1x Tank, Recovery
1x Trailer, 20-cwt, 2-WH, Water

Troop:

2x Tank, Light
2x Tank, Cruiser

Troop:

2x Tank, Light
2x Tank, Cruiser

Troop:

2x Tank, Light
2x Tank, Cruiser

Troop:

2x Tank, Light
2x Tank, Cruiser

Troop:

2x Tank, Light
2x Tank, Cruiser

Total Squadron:

2x Truck, Heavy Utility, Personnel, 4x4
1x Truck, 15-cwt, Battery Charging, 4x4
2x Truck, 15-cwt, Armoured, 4x4
11x Lorry, 3-Ton, GS, 4x4
1x Lorry, 3-Ton, 6-WH, Stores, 6x6
1x Scout Car, 4x4
10x Tank, Light
14x Tank, Cruiser
1x Tank, Recovery
1x Trailer, 20-cwt, 2-WH, Water

This is the War Establishment that was used by the three Squadrons of the 3rd Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment (The Governor General's Horse Guards), C.A.C., the divisional ‘Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment’ of the 5th Canadian Armoured Division while in Italy from January 1944 to their departure for North-West Europe in early 1945.

The other Canadian ‘Reconnaissance’ regiments of the Canadian Army were the:

4th Reconnaissance Regiment (4th Princess Louise Dragoon Guards), C.A.C. - with the 1st Canadian Infantry Division

8th Reconnaissance Regiment (14th Canadian Hussars), C.A.C. - with the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division

7th Reconnaissance Regiment (17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars), C.A.C. - with the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division

29th Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment (The South Alberta Regiment), C.A.C. - with the 4th Canadian Armoured Division

more to follow on the vehicle portion of the War Establishment for these units later.

Cheers

[randall klein]

Hi Mark,

Thank you for this.
It appears that the makeup of a regular recce regiment, IE 17th Duke Of York's Royal Canadian Hussars was vastly different than the South Alberta Regiment?
Your thoughts?

Randy

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by randall klein

Hi Mark,

Thank you for this.
It appears that the makeup of a regular recce regiment, IE 17th Duke Of York's Royal Canadian Hussars was vastly different than the South Alberta Regiment?
Your thoughts?

Randy

In Normandy/NWE the SAR was structured the same as an armoured regiment, ie a recce troop with light tanks and the three squadrons equipped with cruiser tanks - 17th Duke Of York's Royal Canadian Hussars was different altogether - more to follow on this subject once I'm home.

Cheers

[John McGillivray]

Originally Posted by randall klein

Hi Mark,

Thank you for this.
It appears that the makeup of a regular recce regiment, IE 17th Duke Of York's Royal Canadian Hussars was vastly different than the South Alberta Regiment?
Your thoughts?

Randy

This site will give you the general make up of the three types of Reconnaissance regiments.

1- Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment (for armoured divisions)
2- Armoured Car Regiment (for corps)
3- Reconnaissance Regiment (for infantry divisions)

http://truxmodels.co.uk/page35.html

Note that Canadian units sometimes differed from the British norm.

[maple_leaf_eh]

That TRUX link has some very interesting reading. A blend of formal ORBATS, practical experience, war stories and technical variations. There is a description of use of 'Loyd' (sic) carriers and a comment on when they were eventually replaced by Universal carriers. If you do a Ctrl > F search to find the words family or families. Some interesting commentary on the social aspects of British regimental classes. Yes, even with the the armoured corps is a class structures.

[randall klein]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

That TRUX link has some very interesting reading. A blend of formal ORBATS, practical experience, war stories and technical variations. There is a description of use of 'Loyd' (sic) carriers and a comment on when they were eventually replaced by Universal carriers. If you do a Ctrl > F search to find the words family or families. Some interesting commentary on the social aspects of British regimental classes. Yes, even with the the armoured corps is a class structures.

Terry,
Wow, huge detail on the composition of Recce Regiments.
Thanks for this.

[randall klein]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the link. Huge detail on Recce Regiments.

Randy

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by randall klein

It appears that the makeup of a regular recce regiment, IE 17th Duke Of York's Royal Canadian Hussars was vastly different than the South Alberta Regiment? Your thoughts?

Hi Randy;

The vehicles used by the 7th Reconnaissance Regiment (17th Duke of York's Royal Canadian Hussars), C.A.C. of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division - based on the vehicle portion of the War Establishment for ‘A Reconnaissance Regiment, C.A.C.’ (Cdn. II/251/2 - effective 21 February 1944):

(this would be the same for the 8th Reconnaissance Regiment (14th Canadian Hussars), C.A.C. of the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division)

56x Motorcycle, Solo
10x Car, 5-cwt, 4x4
1x Truck, Heavy Utility, Personnel, 4x4
3x Truck, 15-cwt, Fitted For Wireless, 4x4
10x Truck, 15-cwt, GS, 4x4
4x Truck, 15-cwt, Water, 4x4
32x Truck, 15-cwt, Armoured, 4x4
22x Lorry, 3-Ton, GS, 4x4
24x Car, Light Reconnaissance, 4x4
19x Armoured Car, 4x4
75x Carrier, Universal (12 of these with the regiment’s anti-tank battery - 8x gun tower and 4x ammunition carrier)
6x Carrier, 3-inch Mortar

as compared to the Trux site British War Establishment for a Reconnaissance Regiment (WE II/251/2 - effective December 1943) of:

55 X motorcycle
1 X car 4 seater 4 X 4
10 X car 5cwt 4 X 4 (jeep)
12 X 15cwt GS
4 X 15cwt water
33 X armoured 15cwt
22 X 3ton 4 X 4
12 X Loyd Carrier
69 X Universal Carrier
28 X armoured car
24 X light reconnaissance car

so you see, there was slight differences between the Canadian and British vehicle portion of the War Establishment for ‘A Reconnaissance Regiment’.

Cheers

[randall klein]

Hi Mark

Many thanks for the post. There was a big difference between vehicles used by Armoured and Infantry Recce Regiments.

Thanks again,

Randy

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Wheeled armoured vehicles

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

"32x Truck, 15-cwt, Armoured, 4x4"
These wouldn't have been C15TA's, more likely American supplied half tracks.

"24x Car, Light Reconnaissance, 4x4"
Humber Reconnaissance Cars, not Canadian Otters

19x Armoured Car, 4x4"
Humber Mk.IV Armoured cars

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

"32x Truck, 15-cwt, Armoured, 4x4"
These wouldn't have been C15TA's, more likely American supplied half tracks.

Yes, they wouldn't have been C15TA's - when the War Establishment for ‘A Reconnaissance Regiment, C.A.C.’ - Cdn II/251/2 - came into effect (Feb 44), the 'Truck, 15-cwt, Armoured, 4x4' would have been referring to the 'White, M3A1, 15-cwt, 4x4'

Cheers