For Sale: Wapiti tracked vehicle

Bob Phillips · #1 16-06-11, 04:25

I have a large aluminum bodied snow machine , one of three built in the 1950s by the Ford Motor co for the CDN government. It has a 6 cylinder aluminium block bus engine, an english auto matic transmission (shiftless tran company or some such- built them for double decker buses) and a M24 type controlled diff in the front. Saved it from Levy's 25 years ago - a great project for someone with a BIG garage...any interest?? PM me or see me at Oshawa show...Bob Phillips

ozm29c · #2 16-06-11, 09:41

Hello Bob,
Sorry, I am not looking to buy however could you please post a photo of it? It certainly sounds like an interesting vehicle.
Good luck with your sale.
Cheers
John W.

gordon · #3 16-06-11, 10:44

I'd certainly like to see photos though.

Steve will doubtless point you at the M29C.com forum, and I have the Classic Sno-Cat Forum, at least a couple of places to look for someone to give it a good home.

Gordon

Bob Phillips · #4 17-06-11, 22:57

Thanks for the encouragement...will give it a try sometime as i have had no luck so far in posting pics. This is just the larger version of the other Canadian aluminum bodied machines. Was advertised at Levy's 30 years ago for $7500 and nobody was interested. It was scheduled to be flattened for its aluminium value. Has DC3 type cargo doors on both sides, flat front ) a Canadian trait like a 13 cab - sort of) and a large red maple leaf painted on either side. Also has the military marking of the era something like 53- XXXX

Bob Carriere · #5 18-06-11, 00:25

Hi Bob

Curious to see that beast....

...if you send it to my home address....rac1812 at aol dot com I will shrink to an acceptable size and post it for you.

...the other Bob

Bob Carriere · #6 18-06-11, 03:30

If my aging memory works I remember seeing that beast a few years ago.... she is a beauty...... big but very nice....... would be worth saving.....

Bob can fill in the details.

Bob

PS...playing with ACDC..... shocks look like civvy P/U truck shocks ... maybe even M37 shocks.... tracks must have been 18 to 20 inches wide..... double sprocket in front..... could not read the small tire size..... driven from the front sprocket... engine must be located midship or back two thirds for balance. ....would not take much to haul that to the barn.....hihihi

Bob Phillips · #7 22-03-16, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Montgomery

Bob- I remember there was a Wapiti parked in a small display area just inside the Longue Pointe base in east end Montreal..along with a couple other older MVs and an old M-109 howitzer. I remember thinking at the time it was a fairly big snow machine...at the time I had never seen one before.... This would have been late 1990;s?
When i finally found out what it was, I went back to Longue Pointe, but it was gone although the M-109 was still there.
No idea where it went...no one seems to know.

Here (I hope) are pictures of the surviving Wapiti, unless another turns in Quebec. Thank you for that lead Marc.

I bought this vehicle 30 plus years ago to save it from being scrapped. I did not know much about it at that time and it has only been through the assistance of members of this forum that I have been able to put together a more complete history of this vehicle. I would like to share just a few of the basic details with you.

014a.jpg 008a.jpg 005a.jpg 010a.jpg

Bob Phillips · #8 22-03-16, 00:42

So this vehicle was one of 3 prototypes authorized for development on Nov. 3 1947 by the Canadian military(AEPC). It is a 2.5 ton oversnow vehicle and was approved along with a similar 3/4 ton version (3 prototypes also) called the BEAVER Does anyone have pics of the Beaver?

Planning and construction began at General Motors in Set. 1948 with an initial allotment of $120,000 in funds. By July 1949 the contract with GM was terminated with only about 10% of the project being completed. This was done because GM was not seen as being very cooperative in this project,on a number of fronts including the fact that GM refused to deal with outside suppliers seeing them as competitors.This meant only GM parts would be used in the project which was not an acceptable option. In August 1949 the contract was awarded to the Ford Motor Company who built the machines at cost but with a 7.5% fee attached as their profit margin.

The vehicles has a 194 HP Fageol bus motor but unlike bus engines these were cast of aluminium. Cost per motor $6000 each. A variety of standard transmission were tried but the final version is one supplied from England, a Wilson preselect (semi automatic) transmission of the type used in buses.

Bob Phillips · #9 22-03-16, 00:59

The gearbox was ordered through Leyland Montreal.The vehicle has an airshifter which allows you to preselect each gear a bit like a Ferret car. The controlled differential was a custom designed and built but seems very similar to the M24 type diff in a Chaffee. Most major suspension components were made of aluminium & magnesium to reduce weight as is the hull and rivetted aircraft style body. The vehicle is rear engined with the diff in the front.

The first vehicle was delivered to DND in Dec 1952 while the last two were completed May 1953. Following extensive testing a number a material failures become apparent- the lighweight components, support brackets etc in the suspension were not up to the task. Even after a redesign the support brackets were ultimately made of stronger ferrous metals. With its hi compression engine starting and running in cold climates was a challenge and by the time the compression ratio was lowered the engine was deemed to be underpowered for the vehicle. The final recommendations for the vehicle included the installation of a 200-250HP V8 engine with an automatic transmission. This of course never occurred.

There were hope among the DND officials that the US would be interested in this oversnow vehicle but instead they went ahead with their own version ( the OTTER) which must have cost even more to develop and build.One of the documents I located suggest that a Continental air cooled engine (as per OTTER) would cost $22,000 each!! When the project finally concluded the total cost for developing and building the 3 Wapiti prototypes was $1,250,000.00. Don't forget that this was 1952-53 when you could buy a nice middle class home for a few thousand dollars!

This is a brief overview of what I have found. Please add any comments, pictures or information you might have to this story.

Bob Phillips · #10 01-04-16, 02:22

The 3 Wapiti prototypes vehicles were identified ( as were all MVs at the time- is this correct?) with a 7 numbers, the first 2 indicating year and last 5 identifying specific vehicle. There had been speculation in a previous post about the number on this vehicle vs one pictures posted by Ed Storey. The 3 prototypes (beginning with Ford VIN numbers W-101, W-102, and W-103) were numbered 52-92506, 52-92511 and 52-92512 respectively.

This was a large vehicle 19"3" long, 11'3" wide & 8'4" high. With a payload of 5000 lbs it grossed out at 23,500 pounds. This weight was evidently too heavy for many of the early components. While a tremendous effort was put into reducing the weight of the vehicle it was still too heavy for the magnesium and aluminium alloy components in the redesigned lightweight Muskrat suspension system (saving 360lbs per vehicle). There were also spring failures and problems with the aluminium case in the final drive. While many of theses problems were corrected by 1954 it was beginning to be apparent that there would be a limited role for machines as large as the Beaver or the Wapiti. Issues relating to air portability are mentioned a number of times in the correspondence.

When all done it was an expensive project but had many positive features: heated crew compartment with large accessible cargo type doors, double layered windows to reduce frosting, tow capability, radio installations in at least one prototype and a large cargo compartment for men or materials.

Hanno Spoelstra · #11 01-04-16, 14:19

Bob, great background info on a rare vehicle.

I took the liberty merging your posts in the Penguin MkII thread with your earlier thread on the Wapiti, so all the available info on this vehicle can be found in one place.

Hanno

maple_leaf_eh · #12 07-01-17, 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Phillips

...

There were hope among the DND officials that the US would be interested in this oversnow vehicle but instead they went ahead with their own version ( the OTTER) which must have cost even more to develop and build.One of the documents I located suggest that a Continental air cooled engine (as per OTTER) would cost $22,000 each!! When the project finally concluded the total cost for developing and building the 3 Wapiti prototypes was $1,250,000.00. Don't forget that this was 1952-53 when you could buy a nice middle class home for a few thousand dollars!

...

And I get the height of nationalist indignance heaped on me when I say the AVRO Arrow was too wretchedly expensive for the size of the defence budget of the day. Ditto for the Bobcat.

Colin Alford · #13 25-07-18, 21:04

I have found some Wapiti footage here:

http://images.nfb.ca/images/pages/en...84&docAttId=34

The footage starts at 3:00 and ends at 4:15.

The caption states that there is also footage of the Beaver but I don't believe that is the correct ID of the second vehicle. Footage starts at 8:35 until end of film.

Colin