Re-riveting know how?

Private_collector · #1 03-07-11, 12:41

Does anyone have experience in re-riveting chassis crossmembers or similar, or alternatively know anyone who can do this service?

I want to re-attach some chassis components on a Ford CMP, and would prefer doing this in the correct manner if possible. I have had two people suggest just bolting instead, but i'm not convinced this will be nearly good enough or strong enough.

Keen to hear any advice regarding this, and how the results have worked out in your own experience.

Richard Coutts-Smith · #2 03-07-11, 12:56

Andrew (aj.lec) would be the one to speak to, but you could start here.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...=rivets&page=9

Post #252
Rich.

Ian Fawbert · #3 03-07-11, 13:02

Hi Tony,

While not blitz, you may find this thread on doing a jeep chassis interesting.
http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177497

Also this one from victoria.
http://www.vmvc.org.au/Articles/how%...ng%20Jeeps.pdf

Hope this sort of helps!

Ian.

Private_collector · #4 04-07-11, 00:59

Thanks to you both for the links.

I am quite interested in looking into making a portable hydraulic rivet press.
I'm no engineer, but it's much easier to manufacture something after you have already seen somebody else do it & kind of takes the hard work out if you can copy one that has evolved through the trial stages into an efficient tool.

I have a Ford chassis which has had 2 rear cross members removed for shortening but they never finished the job. Of course, at least one of the members has been misplaced or lost in transit as the truck moved through several previous owners.

Always a pain to undo this kind of vandalism, no matter how well intentioned, but despite this, the chassis is still worth saving. I don't want to see this poor old thing get scrapped if I can avoid it. The irony is that several months ago I arranged to meet a fellow at a farm where he was retrieving the front half of a Ford F60, but he didn't want to take the rear portion of chassis or rear axle. I bought the axle & wheels, after chassis was cut forward of the axle. Together we took the spring shackle pins out and I had the axle loaded onto my box trailer. He offered me the chassis at the time, but I declined due to space. The chassis had (possibly still has) the cross member that I am now wanting! It's about 2 hr from my place, and I have not been able to contact the farm owner to ask if I can still have chassis. I will keep trying as I know it is EXACTLY what I now need!

Rule of thumb: NEVER pass up offer of ANY parts if at all possible. You will no doubt need them at some stage.

to you both. Thanks again!

aj.lec · #5 04-07-11, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Thanks to you both for the links.

I am quite interested in looking into making a portable hydraulic rivet press.

Tried this

Dosent work as easily as you would expect .Very expensive when press unit cracks in half .Great force is required and therefore the press needs to be massive and then dosent fit even if hot rivetting

Definately no expert in the matter

Easiest way I found was to make up a few different length keepers .Usually at lengths to fit tightly where you want to rivet
-Make a good hammering unit(made mine from jack hammer bit)
-Initial heat of rivets and put in chassis
-Lock in with keepers and wedge tight
-heat exposed end with oxy until red to white hot and commence forcing down with hammer and bar
-heat multiple times and hammer in a circular motion to get smooth consistent doming on rivets (useable heat only lasts about 10 seconds)
-when hammering always make sure the keepers are tight , they come loose after a few hits and you get a loose sloppy rivet .very hard to tighten up later

Mike K · #6 04-07-11, 10:50

Andrew

Are you manually hitting the red hot part with a hammer ?

Would a compressed air hammer be better ?

MIKE

aj.lec · #7 04-07-11, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Andrew

Are you manually hitting the red hot part with a hammer ?

Would a compressed air hammer be better ?

MIKE

Initially yes as doing that seems to get the rivet to swell in to the hole better and start a dome shape and then finish off with the forming tool
I tried a air hammer but was a bit small for the job and achieved little . A decent size one should work
Tried an electric jackhammer as well but it gets messy pretty quickly
In the end for the amount I had to do it was quicker and easier just to do it with the sledge .I did about 40 in less than 8 hours start to finish

Ganmain Tony · #8 04-07-11, 11:36

Tony

Ive encountered the very problem you are about to tackle. My truck was changed to 2wd and in the process, the transfer case got tossed and the crossmember to mount the gear box gas axed and the middle bit (of the crosse member) altered into a 2wd mount. It wasnt pretty...

I drilled out the rivets, removed the remaining bit of the cross member, found another chassis, drilled the crossmember out and bolted it into my truck. Has worked out fine.

Hanno Spoelstra · #9 04-07-11, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private_collector

I want to re-attach some chassis components on a Ford CMP, and would prefer doing this in the correct manner if possible. I have had two people suggest just bolting instead, but i'm not convinced this will be nearly good enough or strong enough.

Tony,

Today's chassis use high-tensile-strength bolts and nuts, I'm sure it is easier to find these modern fasteners than the correct rivets. I think "the correct manner" is the right way too, but sometimes one can use alternatives when it poses less of a strain on resources, skills and energy.

Just my 2 cents worth, keep up the good work!

Regards,
Hanno

Richard Coutts-Smith · #10 04-07-11, 19:20

I replaced lost rivets (and fitted the rear fairleads ) by using bolts after machining the head to look like a rivet, rounded the nuts right back as well, leaving just enough hex for the socket to bite, plenty of loktite, the rattle gun and after all that realised that no one would ever see the difference!
Rich.

John Mackie · #11 06-07-11, 14:10

I have repaierd truck chassis in the past. two comments. The holes in the chassis are usually a 32 nd inch size, If you plan to use bolts it is necessary to drill and preferably REAM the holes to the next size 3/8 or 7/16 " .Before drilling or reaming the holes fit tempory bolts to line everything up, remove one bolt at a time drill or ream the hole and add the next bolt or rivet untill all are done. Grade 8 bolts and selflocking nuts should be adequate. i was part of a team that put about 100 5/8" rivets in the smokebox of a stesm locomotive. you only get one chance to upset the rivet . if it gets too cold it has to be cut out and start afresh.

John

Phil Waterman · #12 06-07-11, 15:37

Lots of good information being shared, when I rebuilt the frame on my Pat 12 C60L I had to replace all most all the rivets as I had to replace the inner frame completely and replace a number of sections of cross members that had rusted out sections. Looked at riveting but that seemed to be out side of my technical ability so I went the bolt route.

As suggested I line bored each hole so that untreaded section of grade 8 bolts were a drive fit. Then drove the bolts home and torqued the bolts to 75% of max for each size. Line boring all the layers at each joint with the different plates clamped made for tight fit. I used a small drill press clamped to the frame to hold it square while drilling. see http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/Tools.html for picture of little rig. The drill press also made drilling the holes easy.

One point I would add (obvious but worth saying) make sure that you have the frame perfectly level and square. Though the pictures of drilling the chassis show the chassis on the wheels this was only after making sure that it was actually flat otherwise I would have blocked it up of the floor. In the pictures you will note little numbers next to each hole in the frame these are the bolt sizes used in each case.

As to correctness as a restoration, yes I agree rivets would be better, but in reading old truck manuals replacing broken rivets with bolts was common practice. Some of the repair descriptions I have read recommend redrilling the holes to a larger size for a tight fit of the bolts all layers.

In driving out the rivets on my frame I did notice that the hole in one piece of steel would be larger than the other so that the rivet was actually expanded in the hole making for an even tighter fit than just mushrooming the head.

Cheers Phil

Lynn Eades · #13 06-07-11, 22:29

Bolting a chassis (if its done properly) is fine, but,.... it never looks right.
I have a carrier hull to put together, so I cant short cut it. I have a gun, now days called a rivet breaker (because they are now used to remove rivets)
I have riveted a new strip in the floor of my AOP carrier, and some years back helped a friend re rivet his CMP C8AX chassis. With a bit of preparation, it was a fairly simple task and turned out very nice. For some of us the satisfaction of having replaced rivets with rivets, is worth the effort.
A thought; Some trucks (bedford is one) (having from original) riveted spring hangers. I have seen the hangers shorn off. The rivets (being soft) give, and the chassis rails are still in good useable condition. Grade 8 bolts would F*%# the chassis rail. Bumper irons were fitted the same way. I must say that the repair method was to (ream)and bolt both (NZ army Bedford RL's)