British 6inch Gun

[cliff]

To those more knowledgeable then me.

Did the Australian Army during WW2 have these British 6 inch guns (pic below) amongst it's equipment?

This AWM Photo is of British guns at Tobruk.

[Mike Cecil]

Cliff

The short answer is yes.

The 'Howitzer, BL, 6 inch, 26 cwt' (to use the short form or ... 'Ordnance BL 6 inch 26 cwt Howitzer Mk.1 on Carriage Mks 1 or 1(P) or 1(R) or 1(PA) or 1(P)(Aust)' to use the long forms.)

Small number held in Aust prior to the war. Wartime holdings delivered direct from the UK, others from the Middle East, so the ones in the image may well have ended up in Australia.

Superseded by the 5.5 inch BL Howitzer, which remained in service post war.


Mike C

[cliff]

Thanks Mike I appreciate that answer. Can you tell me what towed them in the AIF please?

[Mike Cecil]

Tractors, Artillery (Aust) No.5 - a 6x6 Ford-Marmon Herrington tractor with purpose-built bodywork, for the 6 inch BL Howitzer - pretty sure I'm correct without checking any further.

Mack heavy artillery tractor - don't remember the Mack model off hand - for the 5.5inch BL. Both retained post-war. The 5.5 inch outlasted the Mack, being finally towed by the Truck, 5 ton, 6x6 F1 (No, it's not a 'Mk.5' as commonly stated, but an 'F1') built by International Harvester.

Mike C

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Tractors, Artillery (Aust) No.5 - a 6x6 Ford-Marmon Herrington tractor with purpose-built bodywork, for the 6 inch BL Howitzer - pretty sure I'm correct without checking any further.

Mack heavy artillery tractor - don't remember the Mack model off hand - for the 5.5inch BL. Both retained post-war. The 5.5 inch outlasted the Mack, being finally towed by the Truck, 5 ton, 6x6 F1 (No, it's not a 'Mk.5' as commonly stated, but an 'F1') built by International Harvester.

Mike C

Thanks Mike. Does anyone have any photos of the M/H 6X6 Ford? The Mack would probably been either MN or NO models

[Mike Cecil]

Wait for the book.....

Mike C

[George Moore]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Cliff

The short answer is yes.

The 'Howitzer, BL, 6 inch, 26 cwt' (to use the short form or ... 'Ordnance BL 6 inch 26 cwt Howitzer Mk.1 on Carriage Mks 1 or 1(P) or 1(R) or 1(PA) or 1(P)(Aust)' to use the long forms.)

Small number held in Aust prior to the war. Wartime holdings delivered direct from the UK, others from the Middle East, so the ones in the image may well have ended up in Australia.

Superseded by the 5.5 inch BL Howitzer, which remained in service post war.


Mike C

Interesting,
I did quite a bit of research on the gun for the master for the Resicast kit.
I'm intrigued by your ref 1(P) Aust. So there was an Oz version, can you enlighten me on the changes there may have been.
I have details from the 1919, 1924 and 1937 manuals ex Firepower Museum at Woolwich. I know the carriage remained the same pretty much throughout with changes to the towing eye, from a cast eye, then a short attachment bolted through the existin eye, later a whole new assembly and longer towing bar.
Wheels were another issue, spoked artillery type, then fitted with "shoes" and again a wider "ring" of felloes bolted to the wheel rim, others had a solid rubber tyre fitted to the original spoked wheel. Pneumatic tyres fitted to inter-war guns had a "Martin Parry" type adaptor to the axletree, then late guns had a revised axle to use the 13.50 x 20 tyres.
Interwar on those with the solid rubber tyre, and some fitted with the wider "ring" also had a central brake drum.
I am slowly gathering info in the hope of writing a small article on thge gun for a modelling magazine.

George.

[Mike Cecil]

George,

As far as I'm aware, the 1(P) was the Brit pneumatic wheeled carriage. Those imported as such were Mk.1 (P), and those converted locally in Aust (from the pre-war stock) were Mk.1(P)(Aust). I don't know the differences in detail, but the installation of pneumatic wheels on all sorts of items in Australia used the simplest method available from locally available materials.

Mike C

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

George,

As far as I'm aware, the 1(P) was the Brit pneumatic wheeled carriage. Those imported as such were Mk.1 (P), and those converted locally in Aust (from the pre-war stock) were Mk.1(P)(Aust). I don't know the differences in detail, but the installation of pneumatic wheels on all sorts of items in Australia used the simplest method available from locally available materials.

Mike C

Mike could the conversion on local (Aust) guns been the same as the 4.5 inch gun conversion? I have photos showing a 4.5in limber conversion done here in Australia and it was quite simple.

[George Moore]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

George,

As far as I'm aware, the 1(P) was the Brit pneumatic wheeled carriage. Those imported as such were Mk.1 (P), and those converted locally in Aust (from the pre-war stock) were Mk.1(P)(Aust). I don't know the differences in detail, but the installation of pneumatic wheels on all sorts of items in Australia used the simplest method available from locally available materials.

Mike C

Here are shots of the MkIP and PA, (according to the manual).
The Ip has 13.50 x 20 tyres, the IPA has 15.50 x 24 tyres.
It seems strangs the IPA is an inter-war the IP the later pattern.

I dont think I could ever get my head around the designations applied to British equipment.

George.

[Mike Cecil]

Cliff & George,

Sorry, you've reached the limit of my knowledge on the 6 inch BL. Time to find some examples and compare them.

Don't know of too many survivors in Australia, though. The RAA museum collection is in storage at Bandiana, but that may be a source of info.

Mike C

[lynx42]

Did the Australian Army during WW2 have these British 6 inch guns amongst it's equipment?


Cliff,

I picked this up on Ebay last week.

I guess it came from an Australian gun.

regards Rick.

[Mike Cecil]

Rick,

See my earlier post. The short answer is yes.

The '/L' is the sub-type letter, ie the build standard of the particular weapon. The Brits used an alphabetical sequence, but its rarely, if ever, referred to as part of the nomenclature. (Like a Centurion Mk.5 Type K, or P, or...)

Mike C

[Lynn Eades]

Mike, Are you sure about that? (I am cringing) I think it means "Land" service as opposed to "A" (admiralty) and I forget what the air service was.
See examples. Tony Smith posted the info which included ammunition
I think by the time the Centurion was built a different system was in place. I think the "/L" went into dis-use about mid war (WWII)

(What lesson might I learn from this?....)

[Mike Cecil]

Lynn,

Yes, you may well be correct: I'd based it on the latter period without double checking, so my comments appear to be wrong. Land Service sounds good! The term is also part of the expanded nomenclature of the period, eg 'Ordnance QF 25 Pdr Mark 2 on Carriage, 25 pdr MK.1 Land Service'. The date of this reference is 1940, so right within the period we are talking about.

So, scratch my previous second paragraph - or apply only to later equipment!!

Mea Culpa

Mike C

[BSM]

Re the FAT mentioned earlier as the towing platform for the Aust. 6inch .... herewith an image. Rod
PS: also used in recovery work as a Breakdown (Aust.) No. 3A where it sported a heavy weight steel boom protruding from the rear.