Browning .50 HMG on Sherman

[Stewart Loy]

Gents,

I am having a bit of a head scratcher regarding the machine gun on my T-16.

I have a metal box that looks to hold about 40 rounds, war dated and in very nice condition. I cannot seem to locate the bracket that attaches this ammo chest to the side of the Browning M2 .50 cal machine gun however.

Does anyone have a source of information on the .50 cal. or know where to find one of these devices, or even what it is known as, so I might locate a sample? I thought that it pinned to the feed pawl of the gun, but it does not.

I have attached a picture of the box bracket in use on a M2 by ANZAC troops in a desert far away, long ago. My USArmy manual regarding truck mounts tells me that these may have been used on transport trucks with ring mounts, and I have seen them on Sherman tank turret roofs.

Thanks,
Stewart

40 round mount.jpg

[Jordan Baker]

HI Stewart

I posted the following picture over on the G503 forum in the weapons sections. Im sure one of them will have a response shortly.

Here is the link to the picture I had found showing what your after. Sadly the ammo box is in the way of the bracket.

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...lohuso1d556350

[Stewart Loy]

Jordan,

Thanks for your efforts to locate this thingamajig.

Here is a picture of the ammo can. I cannot figure out why it is white - must have been for an 'inside job'.


Stewart

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Stewart Loy

Here is a picture of the ammo can. I cannot figure out why it is white - must have been for an 'inside job'.

Stewart,

If it is a white .50 cal ammo can, could it be from a Fox Armoured Car? That was armed with a .50 and .30 cal machine gun.

P.S. Merry Christmas!

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Stewart Loy

Here is a picture of the ammo can. I cannot figure out why it is white - must have been for an 'inside job'.


Stewart

Stewart;

white ammo tins appear in other photos, example below:

Source: Imperial War Museum
Reference Number: B 5185
Photographer: Mapham J (Sgt)
No 5 Army Film & Photographic Unit
Title: THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE NORMANDY CAMPAIGN 1944
Collection No.: 4700-29
Description: Men of the Staffordshire Yeomanry crowd in and around a universal carrier for a portrait, 7 June 1944. The vehicle is equipped with a .50-inch Browning machine gun, 7 June 1944.
Period:Second World War
B_005185.jpg

Cheers

[Jordan Baker]

HI Stewart

Found this picture. So far its the best I have seen for this type of mount.

The bottom part of it looks to fit over the lower edge of the bin. The two side pieces are probably sping steel and look to be rivited onto the main part. It also looks to have a bracket that bolts to the main gun mount and holds this part off of the mount. The two arrows are pointing to what I presume are bolts.

The stenciled code looks to be "D68917"

[Stewart Loy]

Jordan,

Thanks - that is the snap I have been looking for. That mount looks like a precursor to the .30/.50 cradle that I have the gun on now, and I suspect that the cans I have will be able to be fit to it.

All I have to do now is find one - which will be quite a bit easier now that I know what to look for.


Stewart

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

Here is the link to the picture I had found showing what your after. Sadly the ammo box is in the way of the bracket.

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...lohuso1d556350

Updated link plus photo attached:

Personnel in the turret of a Sherman tank of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers Regiment taking part in Exercise PEDAL II, England, ca. 13-14 April 1944
(L-R): Sergeant J.E. Reynolds, Bombardier W.S. Edgar
a188677-v6.jpg
Source: https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Collec...31678476298121

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Who was looking for photos of that peculiar white .50-cal ammunition box as used on Sherman tanks?

2400A1D0-1735-4E6F-8556-588D126AB6D8.jpeg

[Maurice Donckers]

I am still looking for some of these boxes , some where white and some where painted in olive drab.
Anyone got some for sale ?

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Hanno

Interesting to note the tire on the truck. Looks to be normal highway tire, I've seen photos this type of tire used on Canadian Army trucks during the war but most often in Canada. Examples http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/C...20Columbia.htm

I've driven my CMPs with this type of tire on the road they are great, on wet grass they have no traction at all.

Cheers Phil

[Tim Bell]

I have some - not for sale, i am still 2 short of the number I need.

I can provide good photos if required.

Tim

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Maurice Donckers

I am still looking for some of these boxes , some where white and some where painted in olive drab.
Anyone got some for sale ?

See post #9 for a source in the USA - checked their site today and they are still listed there for $199.95 US, Plus Shipping.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Who was looking for photos of that peculiar white .50-cal ammunition box as used on Sherman tanks?

Found the previous thread on this subject and merged the two.

[r.morrison]

Hi Stewart....haven't talked to you in ages. Regarding your 50 cal ammo box...I found one for sale on Ebay. Last one he says. But it may be a good contact for the mount or to buy an extra box. Totally and simply a fluke that I came across it and your story today. PM me with your email address and I'll forward it on to you. Good luck...Robert

[Stewart Loy]

Originally Posted by r.morrison

Hi Stewart....haven't talked to you in ages. Regarding your 50 cal ammo box...I found one for sale on Ebay. Last one he says. But it may be a good contact for the mount or to buy an extra box. Totally and simply a fluke that I came across it and your story today. PM me with your email address and I'll forward it on to you. Good luck...Robert

Robert,

Yes - it has been a long time.

I sold my machine gun and mount a while ago - and the small box is about all that I have left.

I appreciate the heads up - thanks!

I heard that somebody (in Europe?) was looking for such a thing about a month ago so I dug mine out of the pile and measured it - $75 bucks to mail to Holland. So I sat it back on the pile ...

I hope that you are well and ready to get back to 'normal'.


Stewart

[Hanno Spoelstra]

More pics of D68375 Chest, Ammo, .50 cal., TANK.

Early Model Sherman Tanks in Oran Algeria - Early 1943

LIFE Magazine Archives - Margaret Bourke-White Photographer

8FCFA2C2-EFCE-4DEB-AC37-F16BC094E078.jpg F4228303-F243-4DED-9932-ACB2F52EC6D2.jpg 682DA81E-CAE8-47A4-9B70-424BAB343EA5.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

On FB, Hervé Charbonneau wrote:

My explanation, for those who aren't members of the Modeling the Sherman Tank in Scale group:

"The reason some of those boxes were white is that, contrary to the later 105-round ammo cans used with later (D80030) mounts, which were more or less “discardable”, the D68375 50-round can used with the earlier D69820 mount were meant to be reused and refilled from bulk belted ammo crates. As such, early (dry-stowage) Shermans came with a number of this reusable cans as part of their standard equipment, to be stowed inside the vehicle. And, since everything inside the tank was to be painted white, so were the “permanent” MG ammunition cans."

[tankbarrell]

There's a heck of a lot of stuff in a Sherman that's not painted white! I suspect it was just that some were painted white initially but later the instruction to paint them OD was issued. They stand out rather in white when mounted on the cradle.
The M17 chest that held the belted ammo to fill these boxes from were OD and were carried inside as was the Chest M5, the two water jerry cans etc. etc.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

There's a heck of a lot of stuff in a Sherman that's not painted white! I suspect it was just that some were painted white initially but later the instruction to paint them OD was issued. They stand out rather in white when mounted on the cradle.
The M17 chest that held the belted ammo to fill these boxes from were OD and were carried inside as was the Chest M5, the two water jerry cans etc. etc.

Thanks Adrian. Even though I value the insights of modellers - they do have an eye for detail - your experience as a Sherman tank restorer and owner is invaluable.

BTW, when I posted one of the above photos plus the text "More pics of D68375 Chest, Ammo, .50 cal., TANK" on FB, it was immediately removed with the reason being "It looks like to try to by, sell or exchange items that governments have restricted or banned"